The divergence operator in a rotated reference frame

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on proving the invariance of the divergence operator under rotation in a reference frame. It begins by establishing that the divergence operator can be expressed in matrix notation, leading to a transformation involving orthogonal matrices. The participants explore the relationship between basis vectors and derivatives, noting that both transform covariantly. A specific coordinate transformation is presented, demonstrating how to derive the divergence operator's invariance through algebraic manipulation. The conversation concludes with reflections on the balance between explicit calculations and general notation in understanding vector calculus.
nonequilibrium
Messages
1,412
Reaction score
2
One can easily prove that \nabla \cdot f is invariant under a rotation of the reference frame, however I would like to prove that the divergence operator itself is invariant (same principle, different approach). In other words I want to prove that \mathbf \nabla = \mathbf e_x \frac{\partial}{\partial x} + \mathbf e_y \frac{\partial}{\partial y} = \mathbf e_{x'} \frac{\partial}{\partial x'} + \mathbf e_{y'} \frac{\partial}{\partial y'} where \mathbf r' = U \mathbf r is a coordinate transformation with U orthogonal.

I think matrix notation will simplify things. Rewrite \nabla = \mathbf e^T \cdot \partial where we define \mathbf e = \left( \begin{align} \mathbf e_x \\ \mathbf e_y \end{align}\right) and \partial = \left( \begin{align} \partial_x \\ \partial_y \end{align} \right).

If I remember correctly, the basis transformation is the inverse of the coordinate transformation, i.e. \mathbf e = U \mathbf e'. Also, one can easily check that \partial = U^T \partial' (e.g. \partial_{x} = \frac{\partial x'}{\partial x} \partial_{x'} + \frac{\partial y'}{\partial x} \partial_{y'} = U_{11} \partial_{x'} + U_{21} \partial_{y'})

This gives that \nabla = \mathbf e^T \cdot \partial = \left( U \mathbf e' \right)^T \cdot \left( U^T \partial' \right) = \mathbf e'^T \; U^T U^T \; \partial' \neq \mathbf e'^T \cdot \partial'

Where did I err?
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Actually, googling it a bit, it seems derivatives and basis vectors transform the same way (apparently called "covariantly", although I'm not yet familiar with such language).

So in that case \mathbf e = U^T \mathbf e' and things work out, i.e. \nabla = \mathbf e^T \cdot \partial = \mathbf e'^T \cdot \partial '
 
Just bust out some sines and cosines and you should find it all falls out after a bit of tedious algebra.
 
Seems like bad advice, the whole notion of vector calculus was invented to avoid the tedious algebra. Anyway it seems I was able to work it out as shown in my previous post.
 
I say tedious, it's like four lines:
x' = xcos(t) + ysin(t)
y' = -xsin(t) + ycos(t)

(same for the vectors only you have e1 for x and e2 for y)

then just plug in and substitute d/dx = cos(t)d/dx' + sin(t)d/dy' and also for d/dy and you're done :)
 
Oh first off, my previous reply was a bit "harsh" but I thought I was replying to another thread, in a different context (but also happened to be about vector calculus), so anyway sorry about that.

As for your suggestion: I don't see how that requires less work? You seem to be taking the same steps I did? Also my notation makes it valid for all dimensions, which is a nice perk, and also I don't have to explicitly calculate any products, so I'd say my calculations are neater.
 
This might be easier to do in polar coordinates. Just a wild guess off the top of my head.
 
To be fair, your method is actually more appropriate and does generalise nicely. I just put mine forward as a nice explicit way to show that it's definitely true.

I usually go explicit first in the simplest case, then use nicer and more general notation and then finally generalise a result. I just find it helps build the intuition along the way as nice notation often distances you from that physical interpretation of what's going on.
 

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
10
Views
230
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
746
Back
Top