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News The girl who was stoned to death for falling in love

  1. May 17, 2007 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=455400&in_page_id=1879

    So, we were going to make this place a democractic society? Did the men throwing the stones and filming with their cell phones vote?

    Thanks to the internet, once it gets out, news like this spreads around the world like a wildfire. I suspect that this will act as a greater force for change than any bomb ever could.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. May 17, 2007 #2

    russ_watters

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    This is a very common occurrence in fundamentalist Muslim areas. What probably separates this from the thousands that happen a year in other muslim countries is the fact that with new-found freedom, it should happen less than it used to. But until the country becomes stable, the pockets of hardcore fundamentalism will have more ability to harm those who dare exercise their new-found freedom.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
     
  4. May 17, 2007 #3

    Art

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    Iraq wasn't 'a fundamentalist muslim area' under Saddam :rolleyes:
     
  5. May 17, 2007 #4

    turbo

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    It's not just killings. In Pakistan and parts of India women who reject a suitor may be attacked with battery acid, mutilating their faces. That way they are not likely to be married off, and will remain a "burden" on their families (women are not highly prized in some places) while they face social isolation and physical suffering. It's sickening what some peoples' value systems will allow them to do in the name of "honor".
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2007
  6. May 17, 2007 #5

    russ_watters

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    It most certainly was. Saddam kept an iron fist on it, but these people didn't move there after Saddam left, they were already there.
     
  7. May 17, 2007 #6

    Office_Shredder

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    http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Iraq/May05/honour.html [Broken]

    They were there, but Hussein didn't let them run the place by any means. There's a difference between having fundamentalists in an area, and being a fundamentalist area
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  8. May 17, 2007 #7

    turbo

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    That's a fair distinction. Now that people in Iraq have a non-existent central government, their tribal and religious affiliations are paramount, and the power of the fundamentalists has increased dramatically. Under Saddam, women had the right to be educated and hold jobs and participate as citizens. This is pretty rare in some Muslim countries.
     
  9. May 17, 2007 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    I think we have more than "pockets" to worry about...which is why we can't get stability.

    Apparently security forces were looking on while this happened.
     
  10. May 17, 2007 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    In order to enjoy the liberties of freedom, a society must first understand tolerance. I think the problem in Iraq is that we have pockets of tolerance.
     
  11. May 17, 2007 #10

    morphism

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    Hear, hear!

    Although apparently this is expecting too much.
     
  12. May 17, 2007 #11

    Ivan Seeking

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  13. May 18, 2007 #12
    This story just made me plain sick. These are probably the most grotesque faces of humanity I have seen to date.
    The story begs the question, who's honour is it that they are trying to protect here?
    If killing your own daughter, watching her being sexually assaulted and stoned to death restores your dignity or your daughter's, I don't think any amount of liberation or freedom can help .

    Postmortem reports by medical "professionals" state "killed to wash away her disgrace", checking for viginity to restore some grace, and a maximum sentence of 6 months if found guilty?! WTF is the matter with these people!

    I hope there is a follow up to the article regarding what action was taken against the murderers especially after there is so much irrefutable evidence.
     
  14. May 20, 2007 #13
    Goes to show that Iraq's problems are way too deeply imbibed for any force to solve them.
     
  15. May 21, 2007 #14

    Art

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    Actually yes they did move there after Saddam fell. Many had fled to Iran to avoid Saddam and have since returned and others are the foreign fighters who have entered from Saudi Arabia and the like also since the fall of Saddam.

    As I said in another thread one wonders if the US are fighting on the right side. The Ba'ath party under a new leader would it seems have been a much better option rather than allowing the Shi'ite fundamentalists to gain power regardless of whether they did it democratically or not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2007
  16. May 21, 2007 #15

    turbo

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    The Shi'ite majority was in place before Saddam fell. The Sunni minority was in place before Saddam fell, though a number of them were forced out of holdings that they were given after the suppression (murder, expatriation, ethnic cleansing) of the Kurds. This is not a simple problem with a simple solution. The Iranians don't want hostile Sunnis on their borders, and the Saudis do not want Shi'ites to control Iraq, and both are exerting influence there. The Bushies loudly decry any Iranian influence, and ignore any Saudi influence on the side of the Sunnis. News by press-release is almost always propaganda and is always misleading, and intentionally so. The practice of "embedding" reporters with military units gives the DOD control over what the journalists see, what they can report on, and ultimately, what we US citizens are allowed to know about the disposition of a war that is not going well.
     
  17. May 23, 2007 #16

    Curious3141

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    Wait for it. We're witnessing a burgeoning New Iran.
     
  18. Jun 7, 2007 #17
    Just to let you guys know, Islam has nothing to do with these types of killings, in fact, it condemns them. They're purely cultural and have existed in Arab/Indian areas for hundreds of years, even before Islam. Yes, adultery is punished with stoning, but that goes for both males and females. I don't think that that was this woman's crime though.

    Of course, a lot of ignorant people try to say that this happens only in Muslim countries and so it has to do with Islam somehow. Honour killings also occur a lot with Hindus/Sikhs in India. Also, if you look at other Muslim areas, such as those in Africa and Europe, you'll find that there aren't any.

    The media obviously tries to use these honour killings to attack Islam.
     
  19. Jun 7, 2007 #18

    Ivan Seeking

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    Hopefully these primative practices will never stand the light of day - the world scrutiny made possible by the internet.

    Here, we shoot em, hang em, electricute em, inject em, or in the case of adultery in particular, impeach em, but we are civilized about it. :biggrin:
     
  20. Jun 7, 2007 #19
    Their literature might condemn it, but a noticeable percentage of their people don't.

    And that makes it okay for Muslim countries? Because it happens in India, it makes the fact that it happens in Muslim countries more acceptable?

    No, they do a good job of it themselves. I mean, unless you can prove the media made that story up.

    Because when I browse the news, I don't usually hear about Buddhist fundamentalists stoning women to death, flying airplanes into buildings, and finding new ways to kill Americans, Brits and Jews. Nor do I usually see Mormons in Utah waging unending and violent wars with rival religions.

    But hey, who knows, you might be right, maybe all of that stuff is the medias fault.
     
  21. Jun 7, 2007 #20
    Can you give some facts please? How do you know most Muslims don't condemn such actions?

    It seems that you either misread what I wrote or for some reason do not understand. What that means is that honour killings are culturally motivated, not religiously.

    I did not say that the media made it up. I don't get how you don't understand what I wrote as I'm sure that it is in perfectly good English. I said that the media uses them to attack Islam, though Islam has nothing to do with it.

    Obviously you only do know what the media tells you and haven't even bothered to research the facts, so I'm not going to bother arguing with you. All I ask is that you try to understand Islam first before hating it. I though Westerners were supposed to be open minded...

    Also note that I'm not trying to justify the murder. All I'm saying is that contrary to common belief, Islam does not subjugate women (actually it tries to protect them). That is fact and can be easily found if one actually studies Islam and does not look at the Muslim world as it is now (as many have deviated quite a bit).

    All I wanted to do was clear a common misconception and I'm attacked. I thought those of us in the West were supposed to be tolerant.
     
  22. Jun 7, 2007 #21
    Exactly, HOW DO WE KNOW? Because we don't see it! Where is the Muslim outrage? Where is the condemnation by those who practice Islam?? Facts please?


    On the contrary, the media is very silent about Islame extremism. They don't want to "offend" anyone. The rarely point out when something is carried out in the name of Islam in order to appear politically correct.

    Open minded, yes, but with this crap we draw the line.

    Tolerant of what, exactly? How can you come on this post and "think" or even suggest that any human being with a sense of humanity is going to tolerate this kind of brutality, inhumanity, intolerant behavior?

    Good luck getting sympathy from the Westerners when we see noone stepping in to help save this defenseless young womans life.
     
  23. Jun 8, 2007 #22
    Just because you do not "see", it does not mean that it is out there. Almost all scholars would condemn such an act and many speak out against it. Same thing goes for 9/11. Many Muslims expressed outrage but the media did not bother to put them on the news. Instead, they went for a few radical fools who don't know what they're talking about.

    I don't want to get into this further as I can see that it will simply be pointless as it would just continue on forever.

    Please, just study what Islam teaches and not those who supposedly practice it. What you are doing is simply looking at the Muslim world in the state that it is in and inferring conclusions. Don't just listen to the media or search for information on the Internet. Try to visit your local mosque (though I cannot guarantee what kind of people you will find there) and ask for some books about Islam.

    Islam is not what it seems, and many people, including you, have huge misconceptions about it. The only people that I ever find who do not have these misconceptions are people well versed in history.

    Sorry for being hostile in the previous post though.
     
  24. Jun 8, 2007 #23

    Art

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    I know as a christian I'd hate it if other religions thought Bush's actions typified and represented mainstream christianity which I think is the point oroboro was making.

    BTW although this is undoubtedly a vile act I can't help but wonder where is the outrage and condemnation from the 'more civilized' westerners of the dozens of Iraqi (muslim) civilians being killed monthly in the new air campaign being waged in Iraq?
    but apparently this is okay because
    http://www.theeagle.com/stories/060607/world_20070606025.php [Broken]

    To quote an old adage 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone' or at the very least let's be consistant in our condemnation before adopting a holier than thou attitude.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  25. Jun 8, 2007 #24
    I believe there is some truth to what you are saying. But I don't believe the Muslim community is trying very hard to be heard. If they wanted too, they could do something and the media would listen. There is no way the media would ignore a peace march (for example) by American Muslims that was specifically against terrorism. Which makes us wonder if a majority of the Muslim community silently sympathizes with terrorism.
     
  26. Jun 8, 2007 #25
    Art, I believe there is a clear distinction between actions of war by military means and actions of civilian community on a street corner.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
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