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The Honor Pledge

  1. Dec 9, 2007 #1
    Did you or do you have one of these? When I was in school I was suppose write and sign the pledge on all my homeworks. The thing that got me is this: all the students seemed to more or less "copy" homework from each other. It might not be outright copying, but for all practical purposes it is copying. I guess some people might refer to this as "study groups," but it sure seems like copying. If this is acceptable, then I wonder what the whole point of this honor pledge thing is.

    I thought I was suppose to homework all by myself, but it seems that everyone is sharing answers. This is not just limited to undergrads. The graduate students do it just as much. It makes me wonder how they got into grad school in the first place.
     
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  3. Dec 9, 2007 #2
    What school did you go to? at our school, we only had to sign an honor pledge that we agreed not to cheat on a test. Our professors(well , at least the physics professors) encourage physics students to formed study groups. The engineering department at my school forbids students from forming study groups.

    I never joined any study groups, but I have a gut feeling that most of my fellow classmates 'cheat' on the homework because the test averages are like 65 % and the homework averages are like around 95 %.
     
  4. Dec 9, 2007 #3
    Grad students do it more. I always felt uncomfortable with this, and felt like I would rather get a B than not learn as much by copying. Just decide for yourself what makes sense for you and go with that.
     
  5. Dec 9, 2007 #4
    I don't really think about it as cheating, when I get together with other people we all come with our own worked out homework solutions and then we just discuss what we got, the discussions are what help us out and generally the people I meet with (and myself) usually do a lot better on tests when we do this. Your not really cheating yourself since you are indeed learning the material still.
     
  6. Dec 9, 2007 #5

    cristo

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    When you get to graduate level, you realise the importance of collaborating with people. It helps me a lot more to talk to people about the work I'm doing, and ask input from other people in my situation. I never really worked with others while I was an undergraduate, but in the one course I've been taking this year, I do. It helps because there are some things I know and others don't and vice versa (mainly because we come from varying backgrounds). At graduate level, most people will realise that cheating, and copying other's work is pointless: you won't be able to free-load a thesis like that! But, in order to advance knowledge on a subject, it is advantageous to make use of other people's knowledge around you.
     
  7. Dec 9, 2007 #6

    mgb_phys

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    Because the most important skill for a professional engineer in industry is that they do all the work by themselves and never cooporate or collaborate with any other engineer!

    It's like the declaration on your PhD that it's not the result of any collaberation or cooperation with any other group - a friend of mine in high Energy Physics loved that, he was on papers with 300 authors.
     
  8. Dec 9, 2007 #7
    why would they encourage physicists majors to work together on homework or a project but not engineers? At our school, they encourage engineers to ask for assistance from a teacher. Based on my own personal observations , most engineering majors do worked together on homework and/or projects. Even though our FORTRAN professor explicitly maybe it clear that we were not helped each other on the fortran code, at least 99.99 % of the students around me who were working on the code together .
     
  9. Dec 9, 2007 #8
    "Even though our FORTRAN professor explicitly maybe it clear that we were not helped each other on the fortran code, at least 99.99 % of the students around me who were working on the code together ."

    Good. People should deny systems of imposed absurdity more often. And telling students they cannot help each other is certainly absurd.
     
  10. Dec 9, 2007 #9
    Yeah, seriously, if you are stuck in a problem, why shouldn't you be able to seek help from other students? And if the policy is in place to circumvent cheating, that's just stupid, cheaters will cheat no matter what, and the lack of learning going on in their heads will only hurt them in the long run. I can't tell you how many times being able to talk problems out with my classmates has helped us reach a better understanding and actually solve a problem (especially given how convoluted some physics problems tend to be as written!) or better yet, when I can explain my reasoning to another student, it reinforces my knowledge even more.
     
  11. Dec 9, 2007 #10

    JasonRox

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    Hey man, if you love engineering, you should share it with friends and talk about it.

    Sorry, but that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read. I hope you're joking too.
     
  12. Dec 9, 2007 #11

    JasonRox

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    Graduate students don't study in groups? If not, then there is no ****ing way I'm going to my Master's.
     
  13. Dec 9, 2007 #12

    cristo

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    I think he's being sarcastic!

    I think grad students study more in groups than undergrads; in my department it's like that anyway, since we're in the same office all day!
     
  14. Dec 9, 2007 #13

    JasonRox

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    Ok good! That's what I was hoping for.
     
  15. Dec 9, 2007 #14

    mgb_phys

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    You really are a mathematician aren't you!

    Blackadder : Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
    Baldrick : Yeah! It's like goldy and bronzy, only it's made of iron.
     
  16. Dec 9, 2007 #15
    I hate to sound like a mom but you're only cheating yourself if you're copying.

    edit: not that I've never cheated
     
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