Originally posted by drag
Greetings Zantra !

Purhaps you misunderstood me. I agree with you
in general about REAL infinity. However, when
it comes to math which is a strict and defined
system that we invented - it is capable of proving
something within it is infinite.

Here's the theorem and related links if you wan'em:
http://www.shu.edu/projects/reals/infinity/irrat_nm.html [Broken]
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/IrrationalNumber.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pi.html

Live long and prosper.
Ok this is turning into a PI discussion which isn't the direction I was headed, so for the sake of the argument we'll concede the irrationality of PI.

But at this point I was thinking that the current mathmatical understanding eventually won't be able to coexist with the true nature of the universe we will discover, and in fact will have to be expanded.

Last edited by a moderator:
drag
Originally posted by Zantra
But at this point I was thinking that the current mathmatical understanding eventually won't be able to coexist with the true nature of the universe we will discover, and in fact will have to be expanded.
That's why I'm saying it's an abstract system - it
is not connected to the Universe.

HallsofIvy
Homework Helper
Zantra:
Ok this is turning into a PI discussion which isn't the direction I was headed, so for the sake of the argument we'll concede the irrationality of PI.
How nice of you. I was under the impression that had been pretty conculusively proven. It is also easy to prove that any number that does NOT have an infinite number of (non-zero) decimal places must be a fraction with only powers of 2 and 5 in the denominator. (And even those will give infinite expansions if you happen to use base 11 rather than base 10.) That has nothing to do with whether or not there actually exist an infinite number of things in the universe.

Zantra:
But at this point I was thinking that the current mathmatical understanding eventually won't be able to coexist with the true nature of the universe we will discover, and in fact will have to be expanded.
Well, yes, that happens all the time- the main job of mathematicians is to establish new types of mathematics which physicists often find illuminate physics better. (Much to the disgust of the mathematicians, of course!)

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons NO ©, Been "given freely" (surrendered, under my name) already

It comes from a childs joke; "How many sides to a Circle?"
The answer is "Two, inside and outside."
From that we define 'space', and that is by delineation.
The definition of "infinite" is 'undelineated space', or "Space with no boundries", but this brings us to a simply problem.
All of the thoughts in our heads are 'delineations of space', hence we can conclude that an 'undelineated space', a 'space without boundaries', is something that we cannot conceive of.
Ergo, no thoughts on the subject, no math, no concepts that will "fill the intellectual bill" as there cannot be, because every thought, is a "delineation" of space.
Thanks..............have nice thoughts!
Needed an EDIT, so put it here to ensure it is noticed...

It may be that we cannot concieve of an infinity, but we can, and do, experience it, all of our lives(times).

It is 'actrully', all you will ever experience and it will be, greater still then all of what you will experience of it!

Last edited: