The power set of the power set of an infinite set

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the power set of the power set of a countably infinite set, exploring examples, properties, and implications of such sets in the context of set theory and cardinality.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about practical examples of the power set of the power set of a countably infinite set, questioning if such examples exist "on earth."
  • Others propose that the power set of a countably infinite set has cardinality 2^n, suggesting that P(P(S)) could be expressed in terms of the original set S.
  • It is noted that for a countably infinite set X, the power set P(X) is equivalent to the cardinality of the real numbers R, leading to questions about the nature of P(R).
  • One participant mentions the Cech-Stone compactification of the natural numbers as an advanced example with the same cardinality as the power set of R, clarifying that this is not an example of a large cardinal.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the power set of an infinite set always has a higher cardinality than the infinite set itself.
  • There is a suggestion that no infinite sets exist in a physical sense on Earth, which raises questions about the applicability of these concepts to physical objects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the existence and nature of examples related to the power set of the power set of a countably infinite set. There is no consensus on specific examples or interpretations, and multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of these sets.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of cardinality and the nature of infinite sets, as well as the unresolved status of large cardinals in set theory.

julypraise
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Let X be a set which is countably infinite. Then is there any example, on earth, of the power set of the power set of X?
 
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julypraise said:
Let X be a set which is countably infinite. Then is there any example, on earth, of the power set of the power set of X?

Isn't that just a set with 2^n elements (the power set)? If so couldn't you just write P(P(S)) where S your set in question? The set itself would be uncountable but that shouldn't change the properties of the result should it?

Do you have a particular set S in mind or are you just interested in any uncountable set for S?
 
Because X is countabliy infinite, you can take any set that is countably infinite such as Q or Z^+ or Z, etc. And as most people know, P(X) in this case is equivalent to R. But my question here is what on Earth P(R) for example? Is it an, like, example of large cardinal?
 
julypraise said:
Because X is countabliy infinite, you can take any set that is countably infinite such as Q or Z^+ or Z, etc. And as most people know, P(X) in this case is equivalent to R. But my question here is what on Earth P(R) for example? Is it an, like, example of large cardinal?

I think this might be of use to you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_number#Beth_two
 
Thanks, it was indeed helpful!
 
There are some natural examples of sets which such a cardinality.
An important example (although quite advanced), is the Cech-Stone compactification of [itex]\mathbb{N}[/itex]. This can be shown to have the same cardinality of the powerset of [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex].

This is NOT an example of a large cardinal. Large cardinals are very large, and can not be written so easily as the powerset of R. Indeed, the existence of large cardinals can usually not be shown, only postulated.
 
julypraise said:
Let X be a set which is countably infinite. Then is there any example, on earth, of the power set of the power set of X?

If you mean physical objects, then there are no infinite sets on Earth.
 
julypraise said:
Let X be a set which is countably infinite. Then is there any example, on earth, of the power set of the power set of X?

The power set of an infinite set is always of a higher cardinality than that of the infinite set.
 

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