The thought of death ever hit you?

[Euphoriet]

Do you ever visualize .. just dieing .. and nothing after... you know... no rencarnation.. no after life... its just over.

Sometimes I wish I beleived in some of this stuff...

 

[Evo]

Funny, I think that I would prefer (for me) that there is nothing after you die, but for the ones I love, I want an afterlife for them so I can still feel that they are with me.

This really hit me recently when a close friend of my daughter's was killed when he tried to break up an argument between some kids. He was stabbed in the throat and died before the ambulance got there. I was thinking about how horrible his parents must feel, he had just turned 19 and I thought that they could at least feel some comfort knowing he was in heaven.

I think that we need some assurance of connection with loved ones we have lost. It is hard to come to terms with the person being gone forever.

 

[Math Is Hard]

When I took my physics class last quarter, my teacher was actually very metaphysical and he believed that "consciousness was conserved" and that we never truly die.
Now I am taking philosophy and I expected my teacher to be very metaphysical and spiritual, but he's quite the opposite. He's a hardcore agnostic - borderline atheist.
It just seemed kind of ironic to me that it turned out that way.

 

[The_Professional]

My ethics professor believed that nothing happens after death. And that we have no soul or spirit whichever you prefer.

I personally think that there is an afterlife.

 

[recon]

Evo, why would anyone prefer there being no afterlife?

 

[Gokul43201]

Evo, why would anyone prefer there being no afterlife?

'Cause if you're a bad girl (like Evo), the afterlife may not be a fun place.

Evo, just kidding. You're among the nicest persons around and I've got nothing but good things to say about you.

 

[Artman]

Yes, I have thought about it. I do believe that there is an afterlife. Not necessarily a heaven/hell type place, but consciousness continueing I guess.

'Cause if you're a bad girl (like Evo), the afterlife may not be a fun place.

When you're good you're very very good, but when you're bad you're better?

Just kidding too, Evo.

 

[Concord]

A dream of a puppy born by a female dog
Here is how he wishes:

I want to be a turtle, I dream of being a turtle all the time. I don' t know how to be a real one when I am uglier than the ugliest street walker, and i am a born animal which my ancestors are far away from today's turtle. so i wish that after death, there will be some magic able to turn me into a turtle instead of being a puppy of a female dog.
This means animals also wish to have lives after death. I am dreaming too

 

[Euphoriet]

What I meant is that if the thought of there being NOTHING at all after death ever hit you really hard?

I mean.. for all the religions.. not all can be right.. and if one of them was right.. what happens to the other millions of people that don't follow that religion? They all just go to hell? I mean the the 'hell'.

 

[humanino]

All religions can be right, just misinterpreted.

I am among those who think there might be some form of consciousness beyond our physical shape. Penrose talks about links between consciousness and quantum gravity, in the context of collapsing the wave function, so I am not ashamed to say it ! Yet, I am afraid that agnostic people won't care to participate the debate.

Maybe what happens to you when you die might just be what you believe is going to happen ! That would be the worse !

 

[Monique]

Ever saw Rowan Atkinson's devil act? http://www.rowanatkinson.org/devil_sketch.htm

He's sorting the people who get to go to hell or heaven..

Now, as the more perceptive of you have probably realized by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. [..]

Right, let's split you up then [..]

Okay, atheists? Atheists over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of nitwits. Never mind. And finally, Christians. Christians? Ah, yes, I'm sorry but I'm afraid the Jews were right. If you would come down here, that would be really fine.

I just think we're all mortal.. from dust we came, to dust we will return..

 

[humanino]

What about "Din Din Bhar Ho Pyaari Baatein" !?

 

[Evo]

'Cause if you're a bad girl (like Evo), the afterlife may not be a fun place.

Evo, just kidding. You're among the nicest persons around and I've got nothing but good things to say about you.

Awww, thanks. You too Artman.

Recon, it depends on my mood I guess. I wonder sometimes if I'd want to spend eternity in any form. It would really depend on what that existence was. As for reincarnation, I don't care for starting over and over from scratch.

 

[Chrono]

The only thing I've really thought about dying, I mean me dying, is that who would actually come to the funeral. I wonder about stuff like that.

 

[Loren Booda]

I "dreamt" this morning about my last moments of consciousness while being incinerated by an atomic bomb (I live near Washington, DC). Great feelings of regret, humiliation and helplessness.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I believe in an afterlife. I also believe that in some way we are accountable for our actions.

I think some of the most compelling arguments for an afterlife are found in the experiences of those close to death. I forget the name right now but a few years ago a very unusual book about death came out. It was written by primarily one hospice nurse, but the book includes contributions from many other nurses [dozens I think] as well. On one point made by the authors, the short of it is that dying people often see and speak with "people" from the beyond. Often specific information is given to the dying that proves that these are not just hallucinations; if the stories are to be believed of course.

Not only did this allegedly happen to a distant relative of mine [in Illinois] but it went on for a couple of months. By all accounts, nearly every day an angel visited Doris and talked with her, and gave her comfort, and helped to relieve the pain. Doris gave very detailed descriptions of the visitor and their conversations. She was told that she would die soon. No one had told Doris that she was dying. I really doubt that her daughter and the rest of the family would lie about all of this.

I was struck by one of the stories from the book. A dying woman would see a cat outside of her room. Every day she would see and call the invisible cat and try to coax it closer to her bed. Every day the cat apparently came closer and closer. The day she thought the cat had finally jumped onto the bed and sat in her lap, she died. She died while peacefully petting the cat.

One more comment on the book that I mentioned; the thesis of the book is most striking. What are the overall conclusions and perceptions of death from these caring, dedicated people who have seen more death than probably anyone else alive? The pain and suffering can be terrible, but in the very end death is often very peaceful and even beautiful. I still remember the exact quote: "Whatever you do, don't miss your own death". If at all possible one should try to remain awake and aware until the very end.

Quite a striking thesis!

I will try to find the name of that book again. I am drawing a blank but it sold quite well for a time. It might even be "Don't Miss Your Own Death" or something similar.

 

[Monique]

Hm, so if there were an afterlife.. wouldn't it be awfully busy? I'd like to have a talk with a neanderthaler :P Do other animals get to have an afterlife too? ..I'm skeptic.. :)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Such earthly questions for such heavenly ideas.

I'm sure that your angel will answer any questions that you have.

 

[Lucky_One1]

Hi, I am new to this forum, i think this thread is very interesting.

I just wanted to put my input,and say that i personally belief that there is life after death there is heaven and hell,and we will all be judged on judgement day...

I haven't thought about death much at all, when I do think about death, the thought of me being put into a grave and having dust on me.. creeps me out, and i agree with ivan we are all accountable for our actions.

Every soul will die,and that's a reality so i guess when ever its our time to go we will go,its all in the controle of the creator...

What I meant is that if the thought of there being NOTHING at all after death ever hit you really hard?

well no,if there would be nothing after death? then what's the point of creation?

P.s this is a nice forum:)

 

[Math Is Hard]

Hm, so if there were an afterlife.. wouldn't it be awfully busy? I'd like to have a talk with a neanderthaler :P Do other animals get to have an afterlife too? ..I'm skeptic.. :)

I am pretty sure they do. I think my pets will be the first to greet me when I move over to the next world.

 

[Monique]

Then I'm sure it's going to be busy

 

[Math Is Hard]

p.s. Monique: I searched the internet to try to find out what "Din Din Bhar Ho Pyaari Baatein" meant, but I only found out that it was a song from a movie. Can you translate? I am very curious. Thanks!

 

[Monique]

It comes from a movie song, it means 'May the days be full of lovely conversation'.. I'll change back to english soon :)

 

[Math Is Hard]

It comes from a movie song, it means 'May the days be full of lovely conversation'.. I'll change back to english soon :)

Thanks for the info. I think Indian movies are interesting and fun to watch. They are almost all musicals, it seems. But I digress.. I return now to the topic of death and eternal oblivion and such...

 

[zoobyshoe]

Evo, why would anyone prefer there being no afterlife?

Shakespeare's Hamlet explains this stance as he ruminates over the thought of suicide:

"To die, - to sleep, - No more.
And by a sleep to say we end the heartache, and thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to, 'tis a consumation devoutly to be wished. To die-to sleep,-
To sleep! perchance to dream!
Ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come, When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause..."

"Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,-
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveler returns,-puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others we know not of?"

Hamlet Act III Scene I

 

[Evo]

Thanks for the info. I think Indian movies are interesting and fun to watch. They are almost all musicals, it seems. But I digress.. I return now to the topic of death and eternal oblivion and such...

Hey, no happy talk allowed in this thread.

What I meant is that if the thought of there being NOTHING at all after death ever hit you really hard?

If you currently believe in an after life, would you live your life differently if you found out for certain that there was no after life, that this was all there is ever going to be for you?

I mean.. for all the religions.. not all can be right.. and if one of them was right.. what happens to the other millions of people that don't follow that religion? They all just go to hell? I mean the the 'hell'.

Unless the one that was right had no hell.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wow! There is a lot of this sort of thing out there but I think this is the book mentioned. I never read the book but I listened to a three hour interview with the author. It was absolutely fascinating.

Final Gifts

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Okay I take that back. Here it is.

Love Is the Link
A Hospice Doctor Shares Her Experience of Near-Death and Dying
by Pamela Kircher, M.D.
Published in 1995. 144 pages, 5.5 x 8.5
Near Death / Spirituality
Paperback edition ISBN 0-943914-76-0 $9.56
retail: $11.95; you save $2.39!

"An extraordinary book. . . . it will bring great comfort to anyone who reads it." --Larry Dossey, M.D.

". . . read the book, hear the voice, and change your life." --Bernie Siegel, M.D.

Dr. Pamela Kircher is a seasoned hospice physician and a near-death experiencer who has worked for years with dying people and their families. In this book, she shares moving, immensely helpful stories--some her own, many from others--of moments when the veil between worlds disappears.

http://www.larsonpublications.org/catalog/love-is-the-link

 

[humanino]

If you currently believe in an after life, would you live your life differently if you found out for certain that there was no after life, that this was all there is ever going to be for you?

:surprise:
Would you live differently if the alter life is just your same life again and again and again and... (Nietzsche in Zarathoustra)

 

[zoobyshoe]

:surprise:
Would you live differently if the alter life is just your same life again and again and again and... (Nietzsche in Zarathoustra)

So that's where the idea for Groundhog Day came from: Nietzche. Who knew?

 

[humanino]

So that's where the idea for Groundhog Day came from: Nietzche. Who knew?

I don't know the Groundhog Day !

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't know the Groundhog Day !

It's a comedy film with Bill Murray: obnoxious man gets caught in a time loop where he's condemned to live the same day over and over again until he becomes a nice guy.

 

[Gokul43201]

I mean.. for all the religions.. not all can be right.. and if one of them was right.. what happens to the other millions of people that don't follow that religion? They all just go to hell? I mean the the 'hell'.

Only Christianity and Islam condemn non-believers to Hell. I don't know for sure about Judaism. But I do know that Hinduism and Buddhism don't send you to Hell just because you follow aother religion.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Only Christianity and Islam condemn non-believers to Hell.

I'm not sure if this is true. The belief, per se, is secondary to the fact of living your life according to the ethics prescribed. In other words, a person who lived ethically without a belief in the details of the given religion would not be condemned out of hand. (These religions do assume that without belief there will be no ethical behaviour;"Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.")

I don't know for sure about Judaism. But I do know that Hinduism and Buddhism don't send you to Hell just because you follow aother religion.

Judaism doesn't have an eternal hell. They have a thing called "gehenna" which is a temporary hell, for purification purposes. (Jews also believe in reincarnation for purification purposes. A person may be reborn as a cat, if they have just that one little thing to work out.) I think this is where the Catholic "purgatory" notion came from. Buddhism has no afterlife: the reincarnation they speak of is metaphorical- a person is "reborn" many times during this life. Hinduism, I think, has the "Bardo", also a kind of purgatory where a person confronts their worst fears, and which is non-denominational. It is not a punishment for not believing. It is some kind of thing you have to go through to get you ready for your next incarnation.

 

[Evo]

:surprise:
Would you live differently if the alter life is just your same life again and again and again and... (Nietzsche in Zarathoustra)

Oh, there would be a BIG difference, I don't want to relive this life.

 

[Monique]

..I wish I could relive the last few years like a record stuck in a track.. minus the last year :)

 

[humanino]

Oh, there would be a BIG difference, I don't want to relive this life.

me neither

No , I have to work on it :surprise:

 

[Chrono]

Oh, there would be a BIG difference, I don't want to relive this life.

Nor do I. I shudder at the thought.

 

[Euphoriet]

Evo, I don’t know if I would be living my life differently if I knew for sure there was no after life... since I don’t believe in one now, I guess I would live it the same way I do now.. I live my life as best I can and I can only look back at all the mistakes I made and do nothing, especially since I won’t have a chance to live again (according to my belief of no after life).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about the rest of you guys?... the ones that do believe in an after life.. IF YOU guys knew for sure there was nothing .. would you continue to live your life the same way you do now?

You guys know what? I envy those that do believe in an after life, it must be a beautiful thing. Then again I think about it and I see this belief of an afterlife as something that people have just because they can’t accept the idea of there just being NOTHING.I mean there has to be something right?.. or does there? I can see how this idea of no after life can be devastating to most. Why live in misery when you can live with hope.. right?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The book Ivan talks about seems interesting.. but then again…. the brain is a powerful thing and we don’t fully understand it to comprehend what is REALLY happening to those people… no one really knows for sure. (hehe.. this makes me WONDER SO MUCH on what Einstein could have possibly seen and especially what did he say to that nurse just before he died… maybe he found the link between all physics/sciences, right there and then, … or maybe he just saw his angel?)

I don’t know… sometimes I wonder too much about this stuff.. and it can get very interesting... and confusing.

I question things because… well, we know there’s the physical aspect of stuff.. matter…. but what about the dark matter…we don’t really know what it is…. .. couldn’t that be ‘an after life’ of some sort… maybe it’s the lost souls.. or maybe its “heaven”…. Maybe some people are born again and others aren’t….

Also, with all the advances we’ve had in science… cloning and all.. how does religion stand side to side with this… scientists are basically playing god… how do you explain the fact that they are able to do this… one day we might be able to do more than just cloning….

The only hope of an "after life" I have would be for scientist to be able to somehow “revive” people.. like the frozen bodies of the dead that are being kept. To have those people brought back, I can see that as a possibility … and I mean why not?... Umm.. what would you do if this was possible? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?

Then I think about that also, and it gets scary.. imagine a world where this is possible… you can revive people… what next… scientist reach the point where they can ‘transfer’ old minds to new bodies. People will be cloning themselves, and being basically reborn. You keep all your memories… and maybe that’s how humans will one day reach the full capacity of the mind (brain)… over a long enough period of time this could be very possible… from one body do the next…the mind would keep on growing and the bodies would just be left behind…
Now would this be morally correct? I mean it would always be your own body .. UNLESS you were able to choose a totally different body .. what then?

Ok I could keep on going but I’m going to stop there =-P.

 

[Dagenais]

Yes, I have thought about it. I do believe that there is an afterlife. Not necessarily a heaven/hell type place, but consciousness continuing I guess

That would be torture. You're conscious in a box, 10 feet under the ground but you can't move, no where to go, nobody to talk to - completely trapped for eternity.

What I meant is that if the thought of there being NOTHING at all after death ever hit you really hard?

It'll suck, but at least you're relieved. There's nothing after that - you're dead. Nothing to worry about.

Like Jerry says about George being stressed out, "George will be relieved when he's dead."

The only thing I've really thought about dying, I mean me dying, is that who would actually come to the funeral. I wonder about stuff like that.

Again, from Seinfeld, Elaine, "I bet you I won't even get half of this attendance at my funeral."

Scary to think about that...

I believe in an afterlife. I also believe that in some way we are accountable for our actions.

I agree about the afterlife thing. I think there has to be something more than just this. Living and then dying. The heaven/hell belief is worth putting faith into since it would be the 'best' afterlife (if you go to heaven), as opposed to reincarnation, which would have no point being born, dead, born, dead etc.

I however, don't they we're accountable for our actions. Karma and things of that nature were made up to keep our behaviors in check, IMO.

 

[meteor]

I find funny when people say "I believe that there's an afterlife...". I can believe many things, but it's because I have some data in my brain and can evaluate consequences.
For example, if I'm seeing a match of football between Manchester U. and a team of the Faeroe Islands I can say: I believe that Manchester will win because all the times that has played against a team of Faeroe Islands has win
Or if I have let a milk bottle opened many days I can say: I believe that the milk is in bad state!
But is because I rely in past experiences. I don't remember any experience of having died before. So how can I believe in other life?
I even have not any memories of before I was born! I can't imagine any maquiavellian creator that has us in this world only for fun and then want to recover our souls . Why should he/she do it? Would you do it if you were a creator?
Death is a real thing. You don't win nothing complaining about it or making false illusions. You have to find a method to fight against it

 

[donnie]

You have to find a method to fight against it

Hello everyone

Why fight at all? It brings up the question of destiny I guess. I think learning to embrace the advent of death helps you deal with the value of life. You know that saying that you can never know you're full if you've never been hungry? Yin and Yang. Balance and stuff.

 

[meteor]

Why fight at all?

Um... do you not enjoy everyday of the music you listen, the talks with your friends, the cokes that you drink? Are you sure that you want to lose it all?

 

[donnie]

Whatever we do today should be to prepare us for tomorrow. That's progression into the future. I see death as part of that progression. Not necessarily an end. Just part of the preparation.

 

[merak]

Do you ever visualize .. just dieing .. and nothing after... you know... no rencarnation.. no after life... its just over.

Sometimes I wish I beleived in some of this stuff...

When I try to remember what is was like, before I was born there is only darkness. perhaps eons of darkness. Then, there was the light and this life. here I am!
when I die, I expect it to be back, to the darkness once again.I wonder how long the darkness will last this time...forever? will the light ever return?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How about the rest of you guys?... the ones that do believe in an after life.. IF YOU guys knew for sure there was nothing .. would you continue to live your life the same way you do now?

Absolutely not; that is to say that I feel that my choices in beliefs do directly influence my behavior. I have never been what I would call a “bad person” but I have flip-flopped between belief systems at times. Beyond a doubt, for me at least, my expectations of death greatly affect my outlook and perception of life. Ultimately I think this must affect my choices - I mean when it comes to the relatively hard choices: Should I report this $5000 of income that I could probably, easily hide? Should I bill the customer for a fair price, or should I bill what I can get away with by lying? When someone "gets me", should I "get them back"? When Tsu asks if I was playing with my slinky again, do I hide it in my pocket or fess up?

Coincidentally; a recent post of mine in the Social Sciences Forum:

Belief in hell boosts economic growth

WASHINGTON - Economists searching for reasons why some nations are richer than others have found that those with a wide belief in hell are less corrupt and more prosperous, according to a report by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.[continued]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5529195/

In short, for me it seems a clear choice: Do I live for the here and now, or do I live according to some greater principle that I believe is real. Frankly, the purely philosophical arguments for being good fail in my opinion. When my beliefs [in an afterlife] have been nearly or completely nonexistent, I found that nothingness is not so bothersome as I once expected, but the motivation to always live better is gone. I could definitely make some “smarter” choices, as opposed to what I consider the right choices. This not to say that anyone is always right; especially not me, but how hard we try is the point. I try harder when I choose to believe in a greater purpose that is real.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is not to be confused with a special purpose. Steve Martin fans may laugh now.

 

[zoobyshoe]

..I wish I could relive the last few years like a record stuck in a track.. minus the last year :)

This would only work if you had absolute amnesia for all previous repetitions. If you had the vaguest recollection of the previous runs around the track you would hate every minute of it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

When I try to remember what is was like, before I was born there is only darkness. perhaps eons of darkness.

I don't think so. You can't remember what you didn't exist to be aware of. You don't remember any darkness. If any such memory is authentic it is from the womb. It is impossible for you to have any memories from pre-conception.

 

[recon]

When I was six, I went through a period of wondering how life was like before I was born. During that period, I had recurring dreams of a long boat rowed by 20 very muscular men. I think it was someplace near Thailand/Laos/Vietnam. I also believed that we don't ever leave our bodies after we die, but stay on as conscious as ever, if not even more so. This means that we spend the rest of eternity confined in a casket, unknowingly conscious to people above us.