The Three Purposes of the Universe: A Revelation.

[Entity]

Does the universe have a purpose for being?
Does humanity have a purpose for being?

Without a knowing agent there can be no known thing.
The universe is a thing, humanity is a knowing agent therefore the universe can be known to exist if humanity becomes aware of the universe’s presence.

To know and to communicate the awareness as to the existence of the universe is the purpose of Humanity. To be the knowing

To be known to exist is the purpose of the universe. To be the known

 

[verty]

We are in the universe so we don't know about the existence of the universe as such. The universe is not a fixed thing, it is the totality of what exists. I would even refrain from calling it a thing.

 

[Entity]

We are in the universe so we don't know about the existence of the universe as such.

Humanity is a thing that came into being because of the environmental conditions within the universe being adequate.

The universe is not a fixed thing, it is the totality of what exists.

Are you sure about that? The universe is a natural event within the nature of things.

I would even refrain from calling it a thing.

Our universe is not a sentient being it is a thing that contains other things. Our universe is a thing within it’s environment. Within our universe are multiple things that create the environment of being. One of the things within this environment is the collective humanity.

 

[verty]

Our universe is a thing within it’s environment.

What environment is the universe in? Seeing as it is all that exists, it's environment is that of nonexistence.

 

[Entity]

The potential for a thing to become depends on the conditions of the environment.

It can be said, that the reason for the existence of our universe is the conditions that existed before, during, and after the universe came into existence met the criteria of being sufficient for it to become.

Once the universe came into being it then interacted with other things within it's environment.

The interaction with other things allows all things to change.

Change is part of being.

 

[mace2]

You didn't answer the question asked previously though. You used looping logic.

The question is, in what environment does the universe exist, if your hypothesis is unequivocally true?

Furthermore, who is to say we are the only 'knowing agents'? You have concluded the entire universe apart from us human beings is 'the known.' How can you make that determination without exploring the entire universe?

Before the modern age, some bands of people were unaware of the existence on Earth of others. Who is to say this is not possibly the case with regards to the unvierse?

 

[verty]

The potential for a thing to become depends on the conditions of the environment.

So you argument is:

#1: The potential for a thing to become depends on the conditions of the environment.
#2: The universe is a thing.
#3: The universe became.
-> There existed an environment, the conditions of which determined at least partially the becoming of the universe.

I have trouble with #2 and #3. The universe is not a thing, it supervenes over all things, and the universe can't be said to have become. It seems wrong to say that before there was existence there was nonexistence, because I don't see how you can apply time to that at all.

Hmm, or perhaps the universe is the one thing that does not become, but then please motivate why it should be considered a thing.

 

[Entity]

For there to be a thing there must be space for it to exist in.
For space to exist there must be an event in time that space existence within.
First, a time event for which the space exist within, and then a thing becomes within the space.

Things exist within a period of time within the space required. As with all "things" it can exist, may exist, does exist, and will go out of existence. Some "things" have an ability to influence it's space during it's time of existence. Our universe is one of these "things." One of the universe's abilities is to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "universe" to another "knowing" "living" entity. By doing so, our universe joins the realm of the known.

The universe exists so it can become known and humanity is the knowing agent. This event is the highest final form within the structure of the universe. All other actions within the universe are either moving towards this event, coming from this event, or stuck in a non-motion towards this event. I will also go so far as to say that if there are multiple "verses," which I believe there are, each one of these "verses" are also either moving towards this event, coming from this event, or stuck in a non-motion towards this event.

Humanity so far is all we are aware of that has the ability to communicate it’s awareness of the universe to another living knowing entity. I would like to think that there are others out there because as of now, we are only talking to ourselves and you know where that gets you.

 

[verty]

You're preaching a religion. You believe there are multiple verses, huh?

 

[Entity]

Not religion…
I am writing about the philosophy of purpose
That is the question is there only one universe...maybe... maybe not, we don't know do we?

 

[verty]

But you believe there are. That goes beyond questioning.

 

[Entity]

Yes, I think there are.
Our universe is a natural event.
Humanity is a natural event.
It is only when it becomes known to exist that it reaches the final moment of presence.
I also theories that only after we communicate with other like kinds in other parts of the natural being of existence will our universe become known to exist. Until then our universe may only “be” but it will not be known to be.

 

[mace2]

You haven't answered any of my questions...

 

[Entity]

You haven't answered any of my questions...

I do not believe we are the only ones but as far as we know, we are... The only way we will find out for sure is to remove our dependence on false ideologies that limit our true purpose.
When the first humans gazed into the cosmos and rationalized themselves as being part of a larger creation, humanity's search for purpose began. After many generations of promise, the search for purpose has become corrupt by misguided ideologies that channel Humanity down roads of destruction and despair. This corrupt mindset has placed a sense of mistrust and powerlessness to the results of any search for an alternative religious reality. While many cultures today believe, they have found the true destiny for our existence; most simply have created false and distorted views of purpose and guide their followers down irreversible paths of deception.
The universe exists in the environment of space.
Space is within the moment in time.
The environment of our universe is the action of it existing in space with other things
The universe is one of the things that exist in the space.
Key: for time and the time event of a "verse"
<---------------------------------------------------------------------------> = endless time

>------------------------------------< = event of time a uni-verse exists

Multi-verse theory

<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>-------------------< verse #1
>-----------------------------------------< verse #2
>-------------------------------< our "universe"
>----------< verse #4
>---------------------------------------------------< verse #5

And so on, each "verse" can exist at the same time as any other verse or before or after.

Because there "is" a verse and a verse is a thing that exist within an event of time in the space allowed it follows that a verse can, does, and may exist. However, the only way to know for sure is if the verse is able to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "verse" to another "knowing" "living" entity.

 

[Astronuc]

And I thought it was to find the Ultimate Question to the rather simple answer - 42.

 

[Entity]

And I thought it was to find the Ultimate Question to the rather simple answer - 42.

“Apathy is the absence of hope”…Entity

 

[verty]

I do not believe we are the only ones but as far as we know, we are... The only way we will find out for sure is to remove our dependence on false ideologies that limit our true purpose.

This is pure religion, not philosophy.

 

[Entity]

This is pure religion, not philosophy.

I am not expounding any deity or divine intervention.
I have not asked or written about some moral imperative.
Explain or address your concerns philosophically.

 

[verty]

You are preaching: remove our dependence on false ideologies and accept your true one. I'll not say more in this thread.

 

[Astronuc]

“Apathy is the absence of hope”…Entity

Not quite, and not very original. That quote comes from the Hadith. It would be more accurate to say that "Despair is the absence of hope."

The laser weapon to smash problems is a characteristic called hope, while the absence of such a quality is called ‘despair’ or ‘hopelessness.’

http://www.crescentlife.com/spirituality/hope.htm

Futhermore, 2 questions and a set of presumptive declarations without any supporting commentary does not consititute philosophy or the study thereof.

 

[verty]

Actually, hope is a substitute for acceptance, it allows one to delay accepting the inevitable. Of course, some things (like death) can't be delayed, but that's where religion steps in with its eternal life. Religion and hope go well together, but one can live contently without relying on either.

 

[Entity]

Actually, hope is a substitute for acceptance, it allows one to delay accepting the inevitable. Of course, some things (like death) can't be delayed, but that's where religion steps in with its eternal life. Religion and hope go well together, but one can live contently without relying on either.

I will agree with this.
However, preaching, teaching, and speaking all have value.
I am only asking what you think and what you feel is necessary with the purpose of existence.
You may find fault with how I ask and what I may say but still my point is that the universe can only be known by a knowing agent, which is what humanity fulfils.
How is this religious? I am attacking the absurdity of the after life concept not trying to join it.

 

[Entity]

Not quite, and not very original. That quote comes from the Hadith. It would be more accurate to say that "Despair is the absence of hope."
Futhermore, 2 questions and a set of presumptive declarations without any supporting commentary does not consititute philosophy or the study thereof.

I was just trying to offer something besides the three dog night quote.
Do you have anything your own to add?

 

[mace2]

I do not believe we are the only ones but as far as we know, we are... The only way we will find out for sure is to remove our dependence on false ideologies that limit our true purpose.
When the first humans gazed into the cosmos and rationalized themselves as being part of a larger creation, humanity's search for purpose began. After many generations of promise, the search for purpose has become corrupt by misguided ideologies that channel Humanity down roads of destruction and despair. This corrupt mindset has placed a sense of mistrust and powerlessness to the results of any search for an alternative religious reality. While many cultures today believe, they have found the true destiny for our existence; most simply have created false and distorted views of purpose and guide their followers down irreversible paths of deception.
The universe exists in the environment of space.
Space is within the moment in time.
The environment of our universe is the action of it existing in space with other things
The universe is one of the things that exist in the space.
Key: for time and the time event of a "verse"
<---------------------------------------------------------------------------> = endless time

>------------------------------------< = event of time a uni-verse exists

Multi-verse theory

<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>-------------------< verse #1
>-----------------------------------------< verse #2
>-------------------------------< our "universe"
>----------< verse #4
>---------------------------------------------------< verse #5

And so on, each "verse" can exist at the same time as any other verse or before or after.

Because there "is" a verse and a verse is a thing that exist within an event of time in the space allowed it follows that a verse can, does, and may exist. However, the only way to know for sure is if the verse is able to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "verse" to another "knowing" "living" entity.

By "cultures" did you mean "religions"?
Either way, you say most lead to despair, meaning not all do. So, which ones don't lead to despair?

 

[Entity]

By "cultures" did you mean "religions"?
Either way, you say most lead to despair, meaning not all do. So, which ones don't lead to despair?

Sure, any ideology that promotes life on Earth as having a higher moral value than death. However, they are rare.

Humanity in general views psychological and physical persuasion of others as being a legitimate form of obedience. This creates a sense of powerlessness and despair within the masses. I believe this force is innate within the human struggle to exist in it’s environment and is compounded by any culture, be it religious or secular that places a higher moral value on death than that of life. They use the act of death as a form of persuasion to guide their followers. This can be done many ways. A promise of an after life that is better than that on Earth or simply believing that death is morally just when there is a higher purpose “the State” are just a couple. Maybe you can think of some examples, too.

 

[Overdose]

All i can say is - the universe seems to be underpinned by physical principles that favour the evolution of systems that move along a gradient of ever increasing complexity.
I guess to be alittle bit more speculative id say the universe is a process that favours variety of expression in form and being.

 

[Rade]

The purpose of the universe is to continue to exist.

 

[sd01g]

The purpose of the universe is to continue to exist.

Purpose is not an intrinsic component of the empirical world. It exists only in the Mind of Man, so to speak, or in the Minds of other entities.

The universe existed long before our planet existed and will exist long after our planet is 'space dust'. Same is true for the other entities.

Conclusion: We can only guess what is the purpose of the universe, if there is one, but "The purpose of the universe is to continue to exist" seems to be a pretty good guess.

 

[Entity]

How about: the purpose of the universe is to continue to “be known” to exists and does so through living knowing entities. Without knowing agents, the universe would not be known even to continue existing.

 

[out of whack]

What makes you think the universe has an intention?

 

[sd01g]

What makes you think the universe has an intention?

Why do we exist and why do we think and why do we ask questions?

 

[fedorfan]

Why do we exist and why do we think and why do we ask questions?

Nobody knows.

 

[out of whack]

Why do we exist and why do we think and why do we ask questions?

It appears to be a natural result of the evolution of species. We happen to be at a stage when living creatures have become sentient. That's my opinion regarding your specific question, but the original post is much more global than this since it asked about the whole universe, a much bigger bite to swallow.

 

[Entity]

It is the act of awareness to the reality of existing and then communicating this awareness to a knowing living entity that brings all other events into being. Without the knowing agent there can be no known thing.

 

[AsianSensationK]

This is pure religion, not philosophy.

This most certainly is philosophy. It just happens to be a piece of classical philosophy. It's a concept called teleology, and I believe it's most closely associated with Aristotle.

The classical examples typically involve trivial stuff like acorns. This one is easy to argue for. It's an acorns purpose to become an oak tree. The function of the acorn is implicit in its structure. This means your typical acorn "should" become an oak tree.

I seem to remember that the function of man is "virtuous and rational activity" or something like that. Here it seems like the function of the universe is the reverse of the function of man. Isn't that a little too convenient? Why would it be the case that the purpose of the universe is to be known, and yet the universe contains so few "knowing" entities?

 

[out of whack]

It is the act of awareness to the reality of existing and then communicating this awareness to a knowing living entity that brings all other [known] events into being. Without the knowing agent there can be no known thing.

[Bold adjective added by me.]

This sounds good if your only concern is known things. "Known things" of course do not exist unless they are both "known" and "things". It doesn't discount the existence of unknown things.

 

[Entity]

This most certainly is philosophy. It's a concept called teleology...
Here it seems like the function of the universe is the reverse of the function of man. Isn't that a little too convenient? Why would it be the case that the purpose of the universe is to be known, and yet the universe contains so few "knowing" entities?

It only takes a few to know. Call it what you wish, I see nothing today that ask this question, perhaps you are better read. We are here to know.

[Bold adjective added by me.]This sounds good if your only concern is known things. "Known things" of course do not exist unless they are both "known" and "things". It doesn't discount the existence of unknown things.

Yes, I am concerned with the known things as well as how they become known. Until we understand all of the known, the unknown will always be there. I will give you that.

 

[Entity]

Why do we exist and why do we think and why do we ask questions?

Because we can. And as far as we know ...the only ones who can. cool huh

 

[regent]

Does the universe have a purpose for being?
Does humanity have a purpose for being?

Without a knowing agent there can be no known thing.
The universe is a thing, humanity is a knowing agent therefore the universe can be known to exist if humanity becomes aware of the universe’s presence.

To know and to communicate the awareness as to the existence of the universe is the purpose of Humanity. To be the knowing

To be known to exist is the purpose of the universe. To be the known

How would you explain how humans first came to be?

 

[Entity]

How would you explain how humans first came to be?

Humanity is simply a natural event that can, does, and may happen. We are in the “does” faze of the human event. Things exist within a period of time within the space required. As with all "things" it can exist, may exist, does exist, and will go out of existence. Some "things" have an ability to influence it's space during it's time existing. Our universe is one of these "things." One of the universe's abilities is to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "universe" to another "knowing" "living" entity. By doing so, our universe can join the realm of the known. I understand this may sound a bit uneventful but in the realm of the known, it is essential. What one knows is a part of the “known” when one is able to transfer accurately this knowledge to another living knowing entity. My guess is humanity may be just one entity.

 

[heusdens]

Does the universe have a purpose for being?
Does humanity have a purpose for being?

Without a knowing agent there can be no known thing.
The universe is a thing, humanity is a knowing agent therefore the universe can be known to exist if humanity becomes aware of the universe’s presence.

To know and to communicate the awareness as to the existence of the universe is the purpose of Humanity. To be the knowing

To be known to exist is the purpose of the universe. To be the known

The universe is not an apple. An apple exists in the objective sense that it exists as an object for us (we can take a bite in it to satisfy our hunger), and for the apple, there exists objects, like the birds who eat the apple, and who are independend of each other and can have objective relations.

For the universe, there are no separate objects strictly outside and independend of it, neither are there objects that have the universe as an object, which are independend and strictly apart from the universe.

So, in that sense, in the objective sense, there is no universe in existence.

 

[Entity]

For the universe, there are no separate objects strictly outside and independend of it, neither are there objects that have the universe as an object, which are independend and strictly apart from the universe.
So, in that sense, in the objective sense, there is no universe in existence.

Time is constant and for there to be time there must be space that exists. Things are what exist within space for a time period. The universe is one of the things that exist within space for a period of time. Before our universe there was time and space for it to exist within as will there be time and space the will exist when our universe no longer exist. The question is what if anything was in the space before the coming into existence of our universe. Was the space empty, a static essence of nothing or were there other things that affected the coming into existence of our universe. I think you all know what I think.

 

[heusdens]

Time is constant and for there to be time there must be space that exists. Things are what exist within space for a time period. The universe is one of the things that exist within space for a period of time. Before our universe there was time and space for it to exist within as will there be time and space the will exist when our universe no longer exist. The question is what if anything was in the space before the coming into existence of our universe. Was the space empty, a static essence of nothing or were there other things that affected the coming into existence of our universe. I think you all know what I think.

Physics do not have a notion of 'empty' space in the sense that every part of space there is a non-neglectible something, even when there are no observable particles.

So a literal empty space has no physical reality.

Radiation/energy and/or fields at some point in the history and at some point in the future, may be the only things in existence in the universe (the universe by the way, does always exist, even when there are no observable particles), and there are good indications that some properties of the then dominating fields, can cause a Big Bang and a universe filled with ordinary matter, due to properties of the fields (cosmic inflation, etc.).

 

[heusdens]

Does the universe have a purpose for being?
Does humanity have a purpose for being?

Without a knowing agent there can be no known thing.
The universe is a thing, humanity is a knowing agent therefore the universe can be known to exist if humanity becomes aware of the universe’s presence.

To know and to communicate the awareness as to the existence of the universe is the purpose of Humanity. To be the knowing

To be known to exist is the purpose of the universe. To be the known

The presence of thinking beings like us, is what defines meaning and purpose. Without us, or a sentenial being, one can not talk about 'purpose' of the universe. The 'purpose' of the universe, as far as we can understand this, is that it allows for sentenial beings like us to be able to exist.

As humans we see as our purpose to be free, that is to be as limitless as possible, to not be restrained by slavery, hunger, desperateness, etc.

Knowledge in that sense is only functional, in that it enables us to acquire our freedom. Knowledge is not a goal in itself.

 

[Entity]

Physics do not have a notion of 'empty' space in the sense that every part of space there is a non-neglectible something, even when there are no observable particles.
So a literal empty space has no physical reality.

As one may not be able to grasp time so to is space. The two are co dependant. Before a thing becomes there exist a time and space it did not. When a thing becomes part of being, it occupies time and space.

The presence of thinking beings like us is what defines meaning and purpose. Without us, or a sentential being, one cannot talk about 'purpose' of the universe. The 'purpose' of the universe, as far as we can understand this, is that it allows for sentential beings like us to be able to exist.

and I will add … so as to acknowledge the existence of the universe and to communicate this awareness to another living knowing being.

 

[AsianSensationK]

It only takes a few to know. Call it what you wish, I see nothing today that ask this question, perhaps you are better read. We are here to know.

See, you say we're here to know, but ask yourself this. Is there a purpose to knowledge?

That's why Aristotle generalized the purpose of man to "virtuous and rational activity" rather than just the act of "knowing." People don't just aim to know, but they also aim to use that knowledge for the general benefit of people (including themselves). Of course, plenty of people still pursue knowledge, just for knowledge's sake.

As far as your argument seeming convenient, it's because you're defining the universe based on properties that have more to do with people perceiving it, and less to do with it's actual structure.

The acorn's purpose is to grow into an oak tree and it is easy to argue for, since it's intrinsic to the acorn. If you argued that the acorn's purpose was for it to be known that it would become an oak tree, it's a little tougher to swallow, because the purpose of the acorn would then be extrinsic to the acorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology A resource that you might find interesting.

I think you'll find that on a forum like this, most people are going to object to this kind of philosophy. A lot of people here will be "metaphysical naturalists." The idea that nature has any inherent purpose to it will sound ludicrous.

 

[Evo]

Honestly, the universe needs no purpose, it just is. We need no purpose, we just are. But then what would bored people have to worry about?

 

[Entity]

See, you say we're here to know, but ask yourself this. Is there a purpose to knowledge?

To have knowledge works well with many qualities a living entity may exhibit however, the act of universe awareness and then communicating this awareness to another entity that can comprehend is far greater an act then most living beings can accomplish. Purpose is to be known to exist.

As far as your argument seeming convenient, it's because you're defining the universe based on properties that have more to do with people perceiving it, and less to do with it's actual structure.

Don’t really care about the structure of the universe but I do care about why it exist. If a knowing living entity does not develop within the universe the universe may exist however, it would not be known to exist and so as a result would be unknown to exist.

The acorn's purpose is to grow into an oak tree and it is easy to argue for, since it's intrinsic to the acorn. If you argued that the acorn's purpose was for it to be known that it would become an oak tree, it's a little tougher to swallow, because the purpose of the acorn would then be extrinsic to the acorn.

I understand an acorn is not a sentient being as is our universe. I think your anology does not work with what it is I am writing. How about, it is a natural event that an acorn can, may, will, or will not become a oak tree. Our universe can, may, will, or will not create an environment suitable for the knowing living entity.

I think you'll find that on a forum like this, most people are going to object to this kind of philosophy. A lot of people here will be "metaphysical naturalists." The idea that nature has any inherent purpose to it will sound ludicrous.

I am cool with whom ever discusses my concept of reality. This is how I learn and develop… gain knowledge if you will. I understand teleology and I do not see anything wrong with suggesting that humanity has a purpose. It is simple, without a knowing agent there can be no known thing. Humanity can be a knowing agent and the universe can be the known thing. All other act be it from either the knowing agent or the known thing, is moving from this event or leading to this event or stuck in a static time/space activity neither leading to or away from this event.

Honestly, the universe needs no purpose, it just is. We need no purpose, we just are. But then what would bored people have to worry about?

First, I am not bored and I understand what it is like to not have a purpose. All I am suggesting is that without the knowing there can be no known and so if you strip away all other attempted statements on purpose you will still be left with the one I suggest. As a result, with humanity’s knowing event (not to say some other knowing entities may exist outside our own unique environment) the universe can become known which allows it to exist in the realm of being.

 

[out of whack]

Asking about the purpose of the universe is a loaded question. It assumes that one exists. A rational thinker should first confirm that there is one and not just assume that "there must be one" without any reason. Otherwise you should also discuss the opinion of the universe because if it has a purpose, it must also have an opinion about it, right? Also discuss its outlook for the next quarter.

 

[fedorfan]

If the universe has a purpose then we don't know what it is because using our logic if something has a purpose then it has a creator.