Is Log of Molecules a Thermodynamic State Variable?

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of state variables, specifically in the context of thermodynamics. The question at hand is whether the logarithm of the number of molecules is a state variable, and the response is that a state variable must be a physical quantity and not a mathematical function of it. The conversation also briefly touches on the state variable of melting and boiling points of a material.
  • #1
keith river
15
0
Is log (no of molecules) a state variable? I know that the no of molecules are a state variable so I assume the logarithm of this is still a state variable. Am I right?
 
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  • #2
In what context did you bump into this question ? Why is ln N there ?
 
  • #3
It was just a question I found in a thermodynamics question book. The full question is
"State whether these are state variables or not... (list of quantities)... logarithm of number of molecules"
 
  • #4
What is a state variable ? You need to be sure about the notions before attempting an answer.
 
  • #5
State Variables are parameters which describe a thermodynamic system.
Some are inherent in the system (eg specific heat capacity) and some we can control (eg heat capacity)

I suppose since we can control N then ln N is to an extent controlled, but I don't know if it counts as a state variable.

Also (quick question to check an answer I made) is the melting and boiling points of a material a bulk property state variable. As they cannot be controlled but still tell us about the system?
 
  • #6
I would say that a state variable must be a physical quantity and not some mathematical function of it.

As for the melting and boiling point, what do you mean by <cannot be controlled> ?
 

1. What are thermodynamic state variables?

Thermodynamic state variables are physical properties that describe the state of a thermodynamic system at a given time. These variables include temperature, pressure, volume, and internal energy.

2. How do thermodynamic state variables differ from thermodynamic processes?

Thermodynamic state variables describe the state of a system at a given time, whereas thermodynamic processes describe how a system changes from one state to another. State variables remain constant during a process, while process variables, such as work and heat, change during a process.

3. Can state variables be measured directly?

Some state variables, such as temperature and pressure, can be measured directly with instruments. However, other state variables, like internal energy, cannot be directly measured and must be calculated using other state variables and thermodynamic principles.

4. How do thermodynamic state variables relate to the laws of thermodynamics?

The first and second laws of thermodynamics are based on the concept of thermodynamic state variables. The first law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or converted between different forms. The second law states that the total entropy of a closed system will never decrease.

5. Why are thermodynamic state variables important in engineering and science?

Thermodynamic state variables are crucial in understanding and predicting the behavior of thermodynamic systems. They are essential in the design and analysis of engines, power plants, and other energy systems. They also play a significant role in fields such as chemistry, physics, and materials science.

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