Thermodynamic potential question,help

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamic problem involving the construction of expressions for internal energy and the generation of new thermodynamic potentials based on specific variables. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty in constructing the expression for internal energy (dU) and presents a preliminary equation, suggesting they might be incorrect.
  • Another participant questions the ability to think of three thermodynamic equations with the specified variables, indicating a potential lack of clarity in the problem statement.
  • A different participant proposes specific forms for the new thermodynamic potentials, suggesting expressions for (S; V; F) and (S; P; F), but expresses uncertainty about the interpretation of the question.
  • Another participant suggests deriving new potentials while referencing the basic relationship for internal energy change (dU = dQ - dW) and provides a derived expression for dU, indicating a preference for using established thermodynamic potentials as a basis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the correct approach to the problem, with multiple interpretations and expressions proposed. Uncertainty remains regarding the construction of the thermodynamic potentials and the interpretation of the question.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the problem's requirements, indicating potential limitations in understanding the question's intent. There is also a reliance on established thermodynamic concepts and relationships without resolving the specific mathematical steps involved.

foranlogan2
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
i have studied my lecture notes back to front and looked high and low for a clue how to do this question but i tried in a) constructing an expression for u and came up with DU= +TDS -PDV - FDL BAUT I COULD BE MILES OUT. could anyone help.

thanks

here it goes:


A piece of rubber of length L is subject to work by a hydrostatic pressure P and also
by a tensional force F.

a)Construct the expression for dU.
[Hint: the usual expression will have an extra term added to it corresponding
to the increment of work performed by F

b)Generate (i.e. invent new) thermodynamic potentials that have as proper vari-
ables (S; V; F); (S; P; F) and (T; P; F).
[Note: the potential R has (S; V; F) as proper variables if dR = xdS+ydV +zdF
where x; y; z are to be found.]
 
Physics news on Phys.org
you can't think of three thermo equations with variables (S; V; F); (S; P; F) and (T; P; F)?
 
for example could it be DR =TDS + PDV + LDF FOR (SVF), AND FOR (SPF) DN = TDS + VDP + LDF ? I am just not sure what question means that's all, can anyone help?
 
i suppose they want you to derive new (invent new?) potentials, but I would go ahead and use internal energy change and say
dU = dQ - dW
dQ = TdS
dW = PdV +ldf
now dU = TdS - (PdV + LdF)

stick to something basic and use the four potentials (internal, hemholtz, gibbs, and enthalpy) as a basis.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K