Thermodynamics Entropy state function?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of entropy as a state function in thermodynamics, specifically how it is affected by different actions within a system. The participants explore scenarios involving a classroom, a teacher, and a book, concluding that while the macroscopic state may appear unchanged, the microscopic state and corresponding entropy can differ significantly. It is established that actions such as putting a book back in a bag decrease entropy, while other activities, like dancing, can increase it due to heat transfer and phase changes. The final consensus is that entropy is inherently linked to the specific states and transitions within a system.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamic principles
  • Familiarity with the concept of state functions
  • Knowledge of heat transfer mechanisms (convection, radiation)
  • Basic grasp of microscopic vs. macroscopic states in thermodynamics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the laws of thermodynamics, focusing on the second law
  • Learn about the mathematical formulation of entropy changes in systems
  • Explore the concept of microstates and macrostates in statistical mechanics
  • Investigate heat transfer methods and their impact on entropy
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for students of thermodynamics, physics educators, and anyone interested in the intricate details of entropy and its implications in physical systems.

Rohan Patil
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Entropy of any system is state dependent. I just read about thermodynamics and I got this question. I first set my system which contained my classroom, the hallway connecting my physics teacher's cabin and the classroom. Then let the entropy of the system be S when I was going to the classroom in the hall way.(The system conatins me and my teacher in the cabin who is reading a book.) I went to the classroom and took out my book from some bag, scribbled something and put it back in the bag again. Then I just sat there and after sometime took out the book when my teacher came in. He started teaching and I started taking notes. Let the entropy be now S'.
Nowe let us take another case. I never put my book inside the bag again. My teacher came in the classroom and I started taking notes. So now we again have the same entropy S'.
This means that even if danced around like a fool and then sat back, there should not be any change in the final entropy. So this means that if I calculate the change in entropy between two states, then I cannot tell what happened in between. But things should occur in only one manner or things should change in the system. I am not able to understand where my mistake is. Please help me out on this one.
 
Science news on Phys.org
Rohan Patil said:
Nowe let us take another case. I never put my book inside the bag again. My teacher came in the classroom and I started taking notes. So now we again have the same entropy S'.

If you put your book back in your back you're decreasing the entropy of the system, after you take it out again, you increase it to S'. With work, you can decrease the entropy of a system.

Rohan Patil said:
This means that even if danced around like a fool and then sat back, there should not be any change in the final entropy.

While dancing around your body increased its temperature and you sweated, so you transferred (more) heat from your body to the air by convection and to the wall by radiation and water of your body is evaporated (so changed from liquid to gaseous state) and spread in the air. All effects which increase the entropy of the system.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Rohan Patil
I think what stockzahn is saying is that, for the various situations you described, the final entropy of your system is not the same. Maybe you think it is macroscopically, but microscopically (which is what really counts), no.

Chet
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Rohan Patil

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
971
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 57 ·
2
Replies
57
Views
8K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K