Thermodynamics of electromagnetic radiation?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on finding references that explore the thermodynamics of electromagnetic radiation, specifically regarding the assignment of thermodynamic quantities to the field itself, rather than focusing on blackbody radiation. The initial inquiry seeks to determine the temperature of a laser beam, with participants referencing works by Madel & Wolf and Essex et al. However, there are concerns about the applicability of these references, particularly regarding the quantum nature of the field and the conservation of photon number. The conversation also touches on the thermodynamics of radiation that deviates from blackbody spectra and questions whether such systems can reach equilibrium or allow for work extraction. Overall, the thread highlights a gap in literature addressing these complex thermodynamic aspects of electromagnetic radiation.
Andy Resnick
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Insights Author
Messages
7,663
Reaction score
3,709
Does anyone know a good reference which discusses the thermodynamics of electromagnetic radiation? Not blackbody radiation, or radiative transfer, but assigning thermodynamic quantities (temperature, entropy, free energy, etc.) to the field itself?

The initial question is simple enough: What's the temperature of a laser beam?

The only decent references I could find are:

Madel & Wolf, "Optical Coherence and Quantum Optics" , chapter 13
Essex, Kennedy and Berry,"How Hot is Radiation?", Am. J. Phys 71, 969-978 (2003)

Essex's derivation requires a quantum description of the field- and since photon number is not conserved, it's not clear how applicable their result is. Mandel and Wolf discuss "thermal light", but I couldn't make heads or tails of their results.

I'm thinking about simple things: even blackbody radiation that has passed through a (passive) spectral filter- what's the thermodynamics?

Any help is appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Greg Bernhardt said:
@Andy Resnick did you gain more insight on this?

Unfortunately, no. I got as far as "Only blackbody radiation can be ascribed a temperature." and no further. I figured someone considered the thermodynamics of radiation with a spectrum that is slightly different than a blackbody spectrum: is that a nonequilibrium system and if so, how could it relax to equilibrium? Can work be extracted from nonequilibrium radiation fields? But I couldn't find anything published.

Maybe someone else has an idea or three...
 
Thread 'Motional EMF in Faraday disc, co-rotating magnet axial mean flux'
So here is the motional EMF formula. Now I understand the standard Faraday paradox that an axis symmetric field source (like a speaker motor ring magnet) has a magnetic field that is frame invariant under rotation around axis of symmetry. The field is static whether you rotate the magnet or not. So far so good. What puzzles me is this , there is a term average magnetic flux or "azimuthal mean" , this term describes the average magnetic field through the area swept by the rotating Faraday...
Back
Top