Thermodynamics of electromagnetic radiation?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the thermodynamics of electromagnetic radiation, specifically the challenge of assigning thermodynamic quantities such as temperature and entropy to non-blackbody radiation fields. Key references include "Optical Coherence and Quantum Optics" by Madel & Wolf and "How Hot is Radiation?" by Essex, Kennedy, and Berry. The conversation highlights the difficulty in applying traditional thermodynamic concepts to laser beams and non-equilibrium radiation fields, with participants questioning the applicability of existing theories and seeking further insights.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamic concepts such as temperature and entropy.
  • Familiarity with electromagnetic radiation and its properties.
  • Knowledge of quantum mechanics, particularly photon behavior.
  • Basic grasp of blackbody radiation and its characteristics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the thermodynamics of non-equilibrium radiation fields.
  • Study the implications of photon number non-conservation in quantum optics.
  • Explore advanced topics in thermal light as discussed in Madel & Wolf's work.
  • Investigate the potential for work extraction from nonequilibrium radiation systems.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, researchers in quantum optics, and anyone interested in the thermodynamic properties of electromagnetic radiation beyond blackbody models.

Andy Resnick
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Does anyone know a good reference which discusses the thermodynamics of electromagnetic radiation? Not blackbody radiation, or radiative transfer, but assigning thermodynamic quantities (temperature, entropy, free energy, etc.) to the field itself?

The initial question is simple enough: What's the temperature of a laser beam?

The only decent references I could find are:

Madel & Wolf, "Optical Coherence and Quantum Optics" , chapter 13
Essex, Kennedy and Berry,"How Hot is Radiation?", Am. J. Phys 71, 969-978 (2003)

Essex's derivation requires a quantum description of the field- and since photon number is not conserved, it's not clear how applicable their result is. Mandel and Wolf discuss "thermal light", but I couldn't make heads or tails of their results.

I'm thinking about simple things: even blackbody radiation that has passed through a (passive) spectral filter- what's the thermodynamics?

Any help is appreciated.
 
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Greg Bernhardt said:
@Andy Resnick did you gain more insight on this?

Unfortunately, no. I got as far as "Only blackbody radiation can be ascribed a temperature." and no further. I figured someone considered the thermodynamics of radiation with a spectrum that is slightly different than a blackbody spectrum: is that a nonequilibrium system and if so, how could it relax to equilibrium? Can work be extracted from nonequilibrium radiation fields? But I couldn't find anything published.

Maybe someone else has an idea or three...
 

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