Thermodynamics problem -- Pressure oscillations in a jar

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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on the thermodynamic principles governing pressure oscillations in a jar, specifically addressing the relationship between force, displacement, and pressure changes. The participants clarify the correct interpretation of the force equation, F = -kx, emphasizing the significance of the negative sign in vector notation. They also explore the derivation of pressure p_2 using the equation (p_0 + mg/A)V_0^{\gamma} = p_2(V_0 - Ax)^{\gamma} and the implications of small displacements on pressure calculations. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the Taylor series expansion for small values of x.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Newton's laws of motion and Hooke's law
  • Familiarity with thermodynamic principles, particularly pressure-volume relationships
  • Knowledge of Taylor series expansions and their applications in physics
  • Basic proficiency in vector notation and scalar quantities in physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the ideal gas law and its applications in thermodynamics
  • Learn about the implications of small displacements in fluid dynamics
  • Explore the concepts of pressure oscillations and their relevance in real-world applications
  • Investigate the use of Taylor series in approximating functions in physics
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Students of physics, engineers working with fluid dynamics, and anyone interested in understanding the principles of thermodynamics and pressure behavior in confined systems.

LagrangeEuler
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I add a Figure with the problem and solution. I have difficulty with a solution to the given problem. Why ##F=-kx=Adp##, I do not understand minus sign because we are working with scalars not vectors. It is correct to say that
##\vec{F}=-kx\vec{i}##, but is not correct to say that ##F=-kx##. Can you explain to me this part?
 

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LagrangeEuler said:
It is correct to say that ##\vec{F}=-kx\vec{i}##, but is not correct to say that ##F=-kx##. Can you explain to me this part?
I would prefer ##\ \vec F = - k\vec x\ ##. The minus sign indicates that the directions are opposite. For motion along a straight line one can dispose of the vector character, but the minus sign stays:$$
\vec F = - k\vec x \Leftrightarrow F \hat \imath = - k x\hat \imath\quad \Rightarrow \quad F = - k x $$
 
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Is it correct to write
(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}=p_2(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}?
From that
p_2=\frac{(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}}{(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}}
and
p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{(1-\frac{Ax}{V_0})^{\gamma}}
Can we assume here that ##x## is very small so that
(1+x)^n \approx 1+nx?
From that
p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{1-\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}}
 
LagrangeEuler said:
Is it correct to write
(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}=p_2(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}\ \ ?
Your book says ##\ x = dV/A\ ## so it chooses a coordinate system with upwards as positive x-direction.
So I would write ##V_2 = V_0 + Ax##. Other than that: yes.

One small thing: x can be many ##\mu##m, however. What you mean is ##\displaystyle {{Ax\over V}<< 1}\ ##.

From your last expression (sign corrected) : $$p_2 = \left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\ \left (1 - \frac{\gamma A^2 x}{V_0}\right )\quad \Rightarrow \quad \Delta F = p_2A-p_1A=-\frac{\gamma A^2 }{V_0}\left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\,x$$

##\ ##
 
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LagrangeEuler said:
Is it correct to write
(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}=p_2(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}?
From that
p_2=\frac{(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}}{(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}}
and
p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{(1-\frac{Ax}{V_0})^{\gamma}}
Can we assume here that ##x## is very small so that
(1+x)^n \approx 1+nx?
From that
p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{1-\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}}
I like what you did here. But, now you can take it one step further by continuing the expansion for small x: $$p_2=(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})+(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}$$So, $$\Delta p=(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}$$So the net upward force on the ball is $$F=A\Delta p=(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})\frac{\gamma A^2 }{V_0}x$$where x is the downward displacement.
 
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BvU said:
Your book says ##\ x = dV/A\ ## so it chooses a coordinate system with upwards as positive x-direction.
So I would write ##V_2 = V_0 + Ax##. Other than that: yes.

One small thing: x can be many ##\mu##m, however. What you mean is ##\displaystyle {{Ax\over V}<< 1}\ ##.

From your last expression (sign corrected) : $$p_2 = \left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\ \left (1 - \frac{\gamma A^2 x}{V_0}\right )\quad \Rightarrow \quad \Delta F = p_2A-p_1A=-\frac{\gamma A^2 }{V_0}\left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\,x$$

##\ ##
Thanks a lot. Could you just explain me better part ##V_0-Ax## ##\rightarrow## ##V_0+Ax##? I have problem to understand why ##V_2=V_0+Ax## and relation of this and ##x=dV/A##.
 
The Taylor series expansion for ##\frac{1}{1-\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}}## is ##\left(1+\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}+...\right)##

To linear terms in x, this is $$\frac{1}{1-\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}}\approx \left(1+\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}\right)$$
 
LagrangeEuler said:
Thanks a lot. Could you just explain me better part ##V_0-Ax## ##\rightarrow## ##V_0+Ax##? I have problem to understand why ##V_2=V_0+Ax## and relation of this and ##x=dV/A##.
If the ball moves up by a distance ##x##, the volume increases by ##Ax\ ##, that's all :smile: !
 
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