Thin Lenses: Lens Makers' Equation Proved

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the lens makers' equation, particularly focusing on the proof involving thin lenses, specifically biconvex lenses. Participants explore the implications of the proof's assumptions regarding virtual and real images formed by the lens surfaces and how these images function as objects for subsequent surfaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the postulation that the image formed by the first surface acts as the object for the second surface, particularly in cases where the first image is real and located behind the surface.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of transformation matrices in deriving the lens maker's formula, emphasizing that these matrices operate on rays rather than images or objects.
  • A later reply clarifies that when the first image is real, it can still serve as a virtual object for the second surface, explaining the nature of virtual images and objects in the context of lens optics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the postulation regarding images and objects in the lens maker's equation. The discussion remains unresolved as participants explore these concepts without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the nature of images and objects in lens optics, particularly concerning the treatment of virtual and real images and their respective distances.

Gear300
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I was reading on thin lenses, in which the lens makers' equation was proved. The proof first gave the lens (a biconvex lens) a thickness (which it would later consider negligible) so that the light would pass through one surface and out the other (so it comes into contact with 2 surfaces). The proof was based on the postulation that the image formed from contact with the 1st surface functions as the object for the 2nd surface (and vice versa). The postulation seems true for when the 1st image formed is virtual and behind the actual object, but it doesn't seem to make sense for when the 1st image formed is real and behind the surface. Can anyone clarify how the second case works?
 
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The derivation of the lens maker's formula which I have seen uses "transformation matrices", but those operate on rays (a ray is described as a vector (y, nu), where y is the ray height at a particular location along the optical axis and nu is the index of refraction n times the angle u), not images and objects.

The transformation matrix of a single lens is written as:

M\equiv R_{2}T_{12}R_{1},

Where R_{2} and R_{1} are refraction matrices, and T_{12} the translation matrix. Explicitly,

R\equiv ((1 -P)(0 1)), where that mess in parenthesis is a poor attempt at TeXing a 2x2 matrix, and P the optical power of a surface. T\equiv ((1 0)(d/n 1)), where d/n is the 'reduced thickness'- the actual distance divided by the index of refraction.

To get the lens maker's equation, simply let d go to 0, and for a lens in air, P = (n-1)/R, where n is the index of the lens, and R the radius of curvature of one surface.
 


Gear300 said:
The proof was based on the postulation that the image formed from contact with the 1st surface functions as the object for the 2nd surface (and vice versa). The postulation seems true for when the 1st image formed is virtual and behind the actual object, but it doesn't seem to make sense for when the 1st image formed is real and behind the surface. Can anyone clarify how the second case works?

In that case, the image formed by the first surface is a virtual object for the second surface.

Remember that with a virtual image, outgoing light rays diverge from a lens or refracting surface as if they had come from a point before the lens or surface; but the light does not actually pass through that point.

Similarly, with a virtual object, incoming light rays converge towards a point beyond the lens or refracting surface, but never actually pass through that point because the lens or surface refracts them somewhere else. Nevertheless, you can use the distance between that point and the lens or surface as an object distance, provided that you make it negative (just as a virtual image has a negative image distance).
 

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