Struggling with Basic Math: How to Overcome Embarrassment and Build Confidence

[Edin_Dzeko]

This post is similar to this guys: http://https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=369870&highlight=I%27m+bad+at+math"

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Long story short, I'm a freshman in college but I struggle with the really BASIC BASIC stuff in math. The other day, I nearly embarrassed myself in-front of a few students. The teacher asked me what's some 3 digit number divided by another 3 digit number and it was one of those "you don't NEED a calculator for" and I didn't know it. I was sweating buckets and the place was dead silent with everyone staring. I tried to play it off as if I didn't understand what she was saying until about 5 minutes later that I finally got the answer. The point is, I struggle with the basic stuff in math. With my calculator I can just punch stuff in on exams and I'm good to go. (that's how I got this far). But the simple stuff you don't need calculators for, I struggle with. I've done well on math before and when I use my calculator I can get things done. But without a calculator, I don't know the basics.

Ex, if someone asks what's 7x8 and I don't have a calculator I won't be able to tell them. And I'm afraid that might embarrass me in public one day. Also I don't know how to add / subtract 3 digits without a calculator. I can't help my little sister with her 5th grade homework unless I jump on Google or use a calculator. I can't quickly tell time on an analog clock and when I look at a digital one, ex supposed the time is 1:16 and you want to know how many more minutes 'til 2:00 I can't tell you it quickly. I'll have to do it in my head for a bit. When I buy something, I can't do the math in my head so I never double check if I get the correct change or not. I always take it as is. When I do try to do the math, I just focus on the dollars and ignore the change.

I'm I suffering from something? This has really been bothering me a lot these few days. It has completely killed my self confidence and motivation.

 

[elfboy]

take some remedial classes at a com. college

 

[dtl42]

Don't even do that (elfboy's suggestion), just do lots of practice with computational stuff.

 

[Chunkysalsa]

Yea just practice with it. The good thing is that basic math occurs everywhere.

When I worked as a cashier I would be asked what 20% of whatever was and instead of picking up the scanner I would just calculate it in my head. I would try and do that when counting change to see if I can calculate a person's change before my computer would tell me (which besides from computer lag is about instantaneous).

Just stop grabbing your calculator and do things in your head. You should be able to figure out some easier ways of doing mental math.

 

[Edin_Dzeko]

Yea just practice with it. The good thing is that basic math occurs everywhere.

When I worked as a cashier I would be asked what 20% of whatever was and instead of picking up the scanner I would just calculate it in my head. I would try and do that when counting change to see if I can calculate a person's change before my computer would tell me (which besides from computer lag is about instantaneous).

Just stop grabbing your calculator and do things in your head. You should be able to figure out some easier ways of doing mental math.

So how do you figure out what the percentage of something is?

 

[Edin_Dzeko]

Don't even do that (elfboy's suggestion), just do lots of practice with computational stuff.

Okay. I'm starting by trying to memorize the multiplication tables up to 12

 

[mharten1]

So how do you figure out what the percentage of something is?

Well, 20% of x would be .2x .

On another note, how did you get through high school? You were always allowed to use a calculator? I was never, except on one exam that absolutely required one.

 

[Edin_Dzeko]

Well, 20% of x would be .2x .

On another note, how did you get through high school? You were always allowed to use a calculator? I was never, except on one exam that absolutely required one.

Yep always allowed to use a calculator so I never bothered to learn the stuff I didn't learn in elementary school. I thought I would always have my calculator so I could always do the simple stuff

 

[Null_]

So how do you figure out what the percentage of something is?

Easy way is to take 10% by just moving the decimal, then timsing by the # needed to get X %, i.e. 2.

The stuff you're talking about seems like elementary school stuff. I really don't know how one could get through middle school and high school, let alone to college without knowing it.

Check out the Khan academy videos. http://www.khanacademy.org/#Developmental Math

 

[mal4mac]

Learning the 12X table is a considerable memory task, so don't get disgruntled if you find it hard! Then again, you might not even have to do it...

It's easy to see how you could get through high school maths without learning to do mental arithmetic, if you are always allowed a calculator.

Why on Earth should knowing your 12X table have any impact on learning algebra or trig?

The teacher who put you on the spot is greatly at fault. You shouldn't be put through such an ordeal. You didn't embarrass yourself, she embarrassed you. This is an important lesson - there are some thoughless people working in colleges, greatly lacking in emotional intelligence. That's a worse thing to have than dyscalculia!

You might have Dyscalculia—a neurological condition characterized by a problem with learning fundamentals and one or more of the basic numerical skills. Often people with this condition can understand very complex mathematical concepts and principles but have difficulty processing formulas or even basic addition and subtraction.

People with dyslexia are allowed to take written exams using a computer, to do the spell checking, so you may be allowed to use a calculator, if you aren't already...

http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com

 

[mathwonk]

you can almost certainly learn your times tables if you practice. and it is quite useful. do you know any songs by heart? do you know your address, or your girls friend's phone number?

we used to have "flash cards" with these problems on them and help each other drill them until we got it. you have no chance of understanding algebra until you have a data bank in your head of arithmetic examples like this. learning things like the distributive law in algebra, goes hand in hand with computing 3 times 115, as 3 times 100 plus 3 times 15. please do not try to convince yourself too early that you are somehow incapable of the same skills others have acquired.

 

[holomorphic]

A huge part of this is being able to approximate quantities. Something that many famous scientists have in common, and that children with an aptitude for math have been found to have, is a tendency to make estimates of everyday things. I didn't start out this way, but now there is probably not a day where I've tried to estimate some thing without knowing much about it. (EDIT: I'm not implying that I'm a great scientist or that I ever had an above-average aptitude for math :P)

I think the trick to not freezing up when people ask you questions like this is practice and practice. In your head when you're walking, when you're in line, in the doctor's waiting room, watching TV and there's a commercial... You just have to remind yourself to do it. It's not a bad way to keep your mind occupied. Times tables are good, but as you're learning to do those quickly, don't forget to learn division just as well if not better (though I think it's hard to learn to do division better than you can do multiplication).Everyday math:
-calculating tip. If you want to tip 20%, take the bill $ab.cd and move the decimal over to get 10%, i.e. $a.bcd, then multiply by 2. If you want 15%, even better practice: do as before, but then find half of $a.bcd and add it to $a.bcd. Try to estimate 18% by finding 20% and 15% and choosing somewhere in the middle, but closer to 20%.
-buying groceries. Find an item that comes in two container sizes, with the smaller one on sale. Check to see if the per unit price of a small container of X on sale is less than the per unit price of a big container of X at regular price.
-Time some everyday activity, e.g. eating lunch, and calculate how much time over your entire life you will spend eating lunch. Check to see how that changes if you allow yourself a little less time for lunch on average. Estimate how much time you spend sleeping, on average, and check to see what percent of the time you are awake you will spend eating lunch. (I take long lunches, personally...).

There are more general situations in which you can just check for "more or less." For instance say you are standing at the crosswalk at the southeast corner of a 4-way intersection, and the cars taking a left from the north direction get to turn only after you're allowed to walk (ie the walk signal appears before they get a green arrow). How much time would be saved or lost for ALL people involved if the green arrow happened first, and then you got to walk? This is a silly example, I know, but depending on the assumptions you make about the streams of pedestrians and cars, you can get different answers.

 

[General_Sax]

he teacher asked me what's some 3 digit number divided by another 3 digit number and it was one of those "you don't NEED a calculator for" and I didn't know it.

To be honest, I probably couldn't do that in my head either -- unless it was like 600/200.

I wouldn't worry too much about this stuff. Just practice basic arithmetic and move on with your life!

 

[physics girl phd]

Google this: "online times table practice" -- and you'll get some online practice tools, including some games. You might find doing some of these on a regular basis useful for brushing up these skills. (I'm sure there are similar tools for addition, etc.)

 

[tiny-tim]

The teacher asked me what's some 3 digit number divided by another 3 digit number and it was one of those "you don't NEED a calculator for" and I didn't know it.

Was it something like "651 divided by 217"?

I would instantly recognise the 51 as being 3 times 17.

But if it was "741 divided by 247" (also = 3), I wouldn't recognise it at all.

Maybe you can never learn stuff like "3 times 17 equals 51" … but if you can, it shouldn't take too long if you keep on practising …

one way of getting practice is to take a three- or four-digit number (maybe the number on a ticket or receipt, but not an easy one ending in an even number or 5) and work out its prime factors (for which you might have to divide by every prime number up to its square root, starting with 3).

 

[flyingpig]

What? That teacher is an idiot (or I am)

what's 999/111? It's 3 a single digit number

Now what's 999/112? It is 8.91964286, there is no definite answer for this...

Look 999/001 = 999

 

[cobalt124]

Nothing to add to the advice given, just don't let it stress you. It is just practice, if you practice all the time, it will come. I never stopped practicing. If I can get by without using a calculator, I don't use one. I use pencil and paper, or do it mentally.

 

[Ryker]

What? That teacher is an idiot (or I am)

what's 999/111? It's 3 a single digit number

Now what's 999/112? It is 8.91964286, there is no definite answer for this...

Look 999/001 = 999

Oh boy... The teacher didn't ask him for a general answer to the question of what you get if you divide a three digit number by another three digit number. He gave specific numbers.

 

[DrummingAtom]

What? That teacher is an idiot (or I am)

what's 999/111? It's 3 a single digit number

Now what's 999/112? It is 8.91964286, there is no definite answer for this...

Look 999/001 = 999

Am I missing something or is 999/111 = 9 and not 3. I don't understand what you're getting at.

 

[flyingpig]

I meant 9...

 

[Edin_Dzeko]

It happened again today. A friend of mine and I were talking about something and he was trying to numerically give me an idea. so as he was making his point he was like what's 15 x 3. Now I pictured it in my head like:

15
x3
---

I know my 5x tables easily. so I knew that 3x5 is 15 but I got stuck at the point. I couldn't quickly do the math / picture it so I had to fake it off by saying wait, and doing something with my watch until he himself said 45 and continued on. Just now as I was doing it i realized after you multiply the 3 and the 5, you then multiply the 3 and the 1 and then add the 1 you get from the 3 x 5. that's my weakness. simple stuff like that, I never learned so now I struggle in my every day life. In the classroom, I use my calculator on my Chem exam and so on so I'm fine when I need to calculate something simple. but in real life that's where the problem lies. when someone asks me something simple, I get stuck and I struggle.

Maybe this might help but, when I was younger, I don't know how I pulled it off but I went through K-2nd grade without learning fractions / time telling and such. When I got to third grade I was an ESL student in America so I guess I was given a little by-pass. I was exempt from state tests because I was an ESL student. In the fourth grade I was placed into the top fourth grade class. my third grade teacher really liked me and the way I was. But I was always pulled out the class for ESL during the time she was teaching the math so I missed out on it and never learned it. I'm not sure about the places with the digits of numbers. What's tens, ones, thousands, ten-thousands. It wasn't until 9th grade that I parted ways with ESL. And 9-12 grade I was ALWAYS allowed to use my calculator. If I have my calculator which I'm allowed to ALWAYS use on all tests in the classroom, I'm fine. But in real life when someone asks like what's this times this or minus this I struggle. that's the problem. A college boy not knowing basic math really frightens me.

So now I have to re-learn all the math I didn't learn in grades 3-5

 

[MOTM1618]

It happened again today. A friend of mine and I were talking about something and he was trying to numerically give me an idea. so as he was making his point he was like what's 15 x 3. Now I pictured it in my head like:

15
x3
---

I know my 5x tables easily. so I knew that 3x5 is 15 but I got stuck at the point. I couldn't quickly do the math / picture it so I had to fake it off by saying wait, and doing something with my watch until he himself said 45 and continued on. Just now as I was doing it i realized after you multiply the 3 and the 5, you then multiply the 3 and the 1 and then add the 1 you get from the 3 x 5. that's my weakness. simple stuff like that, I never learned so now I struggle in my every day life. In the classroom, I use my calculator on my Chem exam and so on so I'm fine when I need to calculate something simple. but in real life that's where the problem lies. when someone asks me something simple, I get stuck and I struggle.

Maybe this might help but, when I was younger, I don't know how I pulled it off but I went through K-2nd grade without learning fractions / time telling and such. When I got to third grade I was an ESL student in America so I guess I was given a little by-pass. I was exempt from state tests because I was an ESL student. In the fourth grade I was placed into the top fourth grade class. my third grade teacher really liked me and the way I was. But I was always pulled out the class for ESL during the time she was teaching the math so I missed out on it and never learned it. I'm not sure about the places with the digits of numbers. What's tens, ones, thousands, ten-thousands. It wasn't until 9th grade that I parted ways with ESL. And 9-12 grade I was ALWAYS allowed to use my calculator. If I have my calculator which I'm allowed to ALWAYS use on all tests in the classroom, I'm fine. But in real life when someone asks like what's this times this or minus this I struggle. that's the problem. A college boy not knowing basic math really frightens me.

So now I have to re-learn all the math I didn't learn in grades 3-5

This might sound a bit strange, but you should consider getting a job as a cashier. I worked for over two years as a cashier, and it gives you ample opportunity to learn quick mental math. Nothing complicated, just simple addition/subtraction, some percentages and fractions thrown in from time to time.

Best of luck with your problem, I can sympathize with your problem, I absolutely dreaded being selected to solve problems at the board, or to be called on in class all throughout middle school. For some reason, my understanding of math didn't click until my freshman year of high school.

 

[HeLiXe]

Don't feel overwhelmed Edin. I don't know if you'll find this helpful..but multiplication is really just addition over and over again...for the multiples of 15, I never think..."ok what is five times three and add that to ten times three" I think what is 15 added to itself three times and do them one by one in your head or even on paper...like 15 + 15 = 30, 30 + 15=45 and then with time everything is easy to remember because there is a pattern

15
30
45
60
75
90
etc

This is how I learned the times tables really early in elementary school. I started first by counting and drawing little circles...like 8 x 3 is three lines of eight
oooooooo
oooooooo
oooooooo
I counted them all and also I worked with things that were easy for me. For example if you find that the 2 times tables and 5 times tables are easy for you, think of numbers as parts of these
8 x 3 =?
first what is 8+8 well 8+2 is 10 and if you take two away from eight you have 6 so 6 + 10 is 16 and that is 8 x 2 then add another 8...16+4=20 and 8-4 is 4 so 20+4 is 24

Hope I didn't confuse you more >_< but that is how I thought of addition, subtraction and multiplication although it was definitely not being taught to me this way lol (well except for the circles...my kindergarten teacher taught us that with lines lol)

 

[lurky]

Wow, I'm shocked that they put you through so much language training at the expense of math. I actually did things backwards from you - English is my first language but when I was a kid, I decided I wanted to learn another language, so off I went to a French school. I'm not talking French immersion, here; I'm talking full out French (there's a difference). Anyway, I utterly failed grade 2 (the year I made the switch). They didn't hold me back, though - they put me in grade 3 and pulled me out of class for extra help IN MATH. They figured I would learn the language just fine on my own, but missing out on important early lessons in math could hurt me in the long run. And they were completely correct about that. Wow, I really feel for you.

One thing they never did help me with was telling time. That's a grade 2 lesson that they just didn't care if I ever learned or not. They probably figured "meh, digital clocks are the way of the future anyway." Well, after a few years of being frustrated with analogue clocks (because the darn things just don't seem to want to disappear), I finally decided to force myself to learn how to tell time with them. It only took me an evening plus a couple of weeks' worth of practice. I do have performance issues, though, in that when put on the spot, I tend to freeze up, but other than that, I can tell time perfectly fine (provided the manufacturer was kind enough to make the hands noticeably different from one another, otherwise I have to take the time to think of what hour it *should* be and then go with whichever hand is closest to it, assuming they aren't both close to it...stupid, irritating, imprecise design).

 

[[Quadratic]]

It happened again today. A friend of mine and I were talking about something and he was trying to numerically give me an idea. so as he was making his point he was like what's 15 x 3. Now I pictured it in my head like:

15
x3
---

I know my 5x tables easily. so I knew that 3x5 is 15 but I got stuck at the point. I couldn't quickly do the math / picture it so I had to fake it off by saying wait, and doing something with my watch until he himself said 45 and continued on. Just now as I was doing it i realized after you multiply the 3 and the 5, you then multiply the 3 and the 1 and then add the 1 you get from the 3 x 5. that's my weakness. simple stuff like that, I never learned so now I struggle in my every day life. In the classroom, I use my calculator on my Chem exam and so on so I'm fine when I need to calculate something simple. but in real life that's where the problem lies. when someone asks me something simple, I get stuck and I struggle.

Maybe this might help but, when I was younger, I don't know how I pulled it off but I went through K-2nd grade without learning fractions / time telling and such. When I got to third grade I was an ESL student in America so I guess I was given a little by-pass. I was exempt from state tests because I was an ESL student. In the fourth grade I was placed into the top fourth grade class. my third grade teacher really liked me and the way I was. But I was always pulled out the class for ESL during the time she was teaching the math so I missed out on it and never learned it. I'm not sure about the places with the digits of numbers. What's tens, ones, thousands, ten-thousands. It wasn't until 9th grade that I parted ways with ESL. And 9-12 grade I was ALWAYS allowed to use my calculator. If I have my calculator which I'm allowed to ALWAYS use on all tests in the classroom, I'm fine. But in real life when someone asks like what's this times this or minus this I struggle. that's the problem. A college boy not knowing basic math really frightens me.

So now I have to re-learn all the math I didn't learn in grades 3-5

If I asked you what 15+15 was, would you immediately know it was 30?

If so then it isn't necessarily your potential calculating ability that is the problem, it's your approach. Do not try to calculate simple things like 15x3 in your head by lining things up like

15
x3

There are times where it is useful to do that but without practicing your times-tables enough so that you can shoot off the answer to a simple multiplication problem quickly...you probably will not have much luck with that approach.

Remember that all 15x3 means is 15+15+15. 15+15 is 30, and 30+15 is 45.

 

[[Quadratic]]

And while I think you should definitely try to improve your on-the-fly number crunching ability, remember that being a good mathematician does not mean being a human calculator.

 

[tiny-tim]

It happened again today. A friend of mine and I were talking about something and he was trying to numerically give me an idea. so as he was making his point he was like what's 15 x 3.
…
But I was always pulled out the class for ESL during the time she was teaching the math so I missed out on it and never learned it. I'm not sure about the places with the digits of numbers. What's tens, ones, thousands, ten-thousands. It wasn't until 9th grade that I parted ways with ESL.
…
So now I have to re-learn all the math I didn't learn in grades 3-5

If you ask me what's 15 x 3, I immediately know that it's 45, and I expect your friend does too.

There are quick ways to do mental arithmetic, but it shouldn't be necessary for simple questions like that.

From your history of being pulled out of maths class, it seems unlikely you have discalculia … you simply need to practise. Try the 15 25 35 and 45 times tables for a start (then 13 17 and 19, then …).

(and yes I know it's a drop in the ocean … but you have to start somewhere )

 

[Edin_Dzeko]

Yeah. Thank you ALL for the advice. I'll look online for some basic math stuff. I like the idea of asking myself questions as I walk outside / through the supermarket and stuff.

 

[Jake4]

In addition to the suggestions given, I would try to find yourself a "math tricks" kind of book. I found a good one (although I'm on campus right now and the book is home, so I don't remember what it is called) that shows you ways to quickly multiply, divide, or estimate answers.

On top of that, what people said: practice. I had a similar problem truthfully, not as bad but simple things would catch me offguard. But I did exactly what others are saying, just calculating things in my head everyday. Not to the point where it's obnoxious, but when an appropriate situation arises.

Simple things like, I'm going 85mph, the exit is in 5 miles.. how long will it take me to get there..

just to get your mind going, even just estimating, getting used to how numbers act with others and such.

and also, a helpful (albeit simple) hint for multiplication and the like.. is to split up the number.

15 x 3 is 10 x 3 + 5 x 3... to this day, that's how I see it in my head, and I can figure it out quickly.

learn to split things up when adding too, 26 + 17, to me is immediately (20+10)+(6+7)... in my head, I'm thinking rapidly that 6 needs 4 more to be 10, and then what will be left of 7?

Do these things all the time, in different situations, and you'll grow to be more and more comfortable with it.

 

[Jake4]

Just to add as well, the most interesting thing is that once you get these simple computations down, and are used to doing math in your head occasionally every day.. you'll find yourself applying higher math and math applications to everyday life.. which is VERY cool...

I know math was interesting to me, but then I began to take calculus based physics, and my mind went CRAZY analyzing and computing things in everyday life. Just estimates, and rough ones at that, but seeing the connection between what I was learning in the classroom and real/everyday life was mind blowing.

 

[holomorphic]

Yeah. Thank you ALL for the advice. I'll look online for some basic math stuff. I like the idea of asking myself questions as I walk outside / through the supermarket and stuff.

I can't advocate this enough. You might find it slow going, and when you remind yourself to check with a calculator the answer of some question you had at the supermarket, you might get it wrong. But the main thing is to practice. Also try to visualize/sense. Someone above mentioned that given 15*3 he instantly thinks 45. Given that we work in base 10 and that almost everyone in the developed world is familiar with analog clocks, that's not surprising. An everyday calculation like (3/4)*60 is great practice.

 

[cobalt124]

I can't advocate this enough.

Agreed. And it can be fun too!

 

[Edin_Dzeko]

In addition to the suggestions given, I would try to find yourself a "math tricks" kind of book. I found a good one (although I'm on campus right now and the book is home, so I don't remember what it is called) that shows you ways to quickly multiply, divide, or estimate answers.

On top of that, what people said: practice. I had a similar problem truthfully, not as bad but simple things would catch me offguard. But I did exactly what others are saying, just calculating things in my head everyday. Not to the point where it's obnoxious, but when an appropriate situation arises.

Simple things like, I'm going 85mph, the exit is in 5 miles.. how long will it take me to get there..

just to get your mind going, even just estimating, getting used to how numbers act with others and such.

and also, a helpful (albeit simple) hint for multiplication and the like.. is to split up the number.

15 x 3 is 10 x 3 + 5 x 3... to this day, that's how I see it in my head, and I can figure it out quickly.

learn to split things up when adding too, 26 + 17, to me is immediately (20+10)+(6+7)... in my head, I'm thinking rapidly that 6 needs 4 more to be 10, and then what will be left of 7?

Do these things all the time, in different situations, and you'll grow to be more and more comfortable with it.

I did the 85mph divided by 5 in my head. At first I got a bit discouraged when I tried to go 12 x 5 = 60 so I can keep going 65, 70, 75, 80 'til I reach 85 but I felt that would be too long and didn't see myself doing that unless I used my fingers as an aid.

So I divided it in my head by visualizing,:

I went 5/85

5x1= 5 (8-5 = 3) bring down the 5 and becomes 35. So 7x5= 35 and I'm left with 17 at the top. Then I checked it in the calculator and it was correct. Took me a bit because I wanted to give up at first when I thought about the idea of counting 65, 70, 75. the problem though, in a real life situation I feel like the clock is ticking and the longer I take I'll get this "are you stupid?" look so I feel pressured and I can't take my time to do it. In real life if I couldn't fake my way out, I would have said the answer is somewhere around 15-18 just as a rough estimate / guess because I know taht 12x5 = 60 so going up by 5's the answer will lie in the range of 15-18

Really great tip with the going by 10s suggestion. It's really helpful. For the 26 + 17 using your 10s suggestion I would quickly have went 20+10 = 30 and 7+6 = 13 because 7+7 = 14 so 7+6=13. it's easier adding anything to 10 because you don't have to worry about the zero so 30+13 = 43 Thanks once again.

Now one last question with multiplication / dividing.
See how 4x5 = 20? So 400 x 500 =? 20xxx but how do I determine the amount of zero's after the 20? what's the trick?

 

[jhae2.718]

400 * 500 = 4 * 5 + 0000 = 20 + 0000 = 200000
I'm abusing notation, but that should get the concept across.

More correctly, 400 * 500 = 4*10^2 * 5*10^2 = 4*5*(10^2)^2 = 20*10^4 = 2*10^5 = 200000

 

[mmmboh]

Or, 4x500=2000, so 400x500=100x(4x500)=200 000.