Time Energy Uncertainty Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving two detectors, A and B, measuring a system C, and the implications of measurement order and time uncertainty in quantum mechanics. Participants explore concepts related to measurement, wave function collapse, and the role of inertial frames in determining outcomes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a thought experiment questioning the state of system C after measurements by detectors A and B, specifically whether C is in state C.A or C.B after interactions.
  • Another participant asserts that there is no time uncertainty, claiming that the order of measurements is determined by the choice of inertial frame, which affects the collapse of the wave function.
  • Some participants challenge the idea that measurement order can be a property of the system, questioning how frame dependence can coexist with system properties.
  • It is proposed that the probability distribution of measurement outcomes is independent of the order of measurements, suggesting this independence is a fundamental property of the system.
  • Further clarification is made that in quantum mechanics, only measurement outcomes and their probabilities are considered real, while the wave function serves as a calculative tool rather than a physical entity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the implications of measurement order and the nature of time uncertainty in quantum mechanics. There are competing views on whether the measurement outcomes are frame-dependent or if they reflect intrinsic properties of the system.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the dependence on inertial frames and the interpretation of the wave function, suggesting that these aspects remain unresolved in the discussion.

awardr
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I would appreciate if someone could help figure out this thought experiment:

Lets say I have two detectors named A and B.
They both want to detect system C.
For my naming convention I will say that C.B is the perturbed state of C after interacting with B

Ok so both A and B decide to measure C at around the same time. If A measures C first then C becomes C.A and A becomes A.C. The instant after that, B will still be able to interact with C (as opposed to C.B) because time is an uncertainty, so now what is C? C.A or C.B? And is B now B.C or B.C.A?
 
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There is no time uncertainty. If you choose your inertial frame, then whoever measures first will collapse the wave function first, and whoever measures second will be measuring on the collapsed wave function. An example is given in http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.3977 where the order of measurements depends on the choice of inertial frame, but the predicted probabilities are frame-independent.
 
if its dependent on choice of frame then how can it be a property of the system?
 
The probability distribution of the results of the measurements is independent of the order and hence is a property of the system.
 
awardr said:
if its dependent on choice of frame then how can it be a property of the system?

In quantum mechanics, only the measurement outcomes and the probabilities are real, partly because those are invariant events in the sense of classical special relativity. The wave function is not necessarily real, and is a tool for calculating the probabilities of measurement outcomes.
 
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