News Torture Still Routine in Iraqi Jails

[Bilal]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&e=2&u=/nm/iraq_rights_dc

((BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi authorities routinely torture prisoners, a leading human rights group said on Tuesday, citing examples of abuse which will sound all too familiar to those who suffered under Saddam Hussein.
Prisoners have been beaten with cables and hose pipes, and suffered electric shocks to their earlobes and genitalsthe U.S.-based group Human Rights Watch said. Some have been starved of food and water and crammed into standing-room only cells. )),

(("The Iraqi interim government is not keeping its promises to honor and respect basic human rights. Sadly, the Iraqi people continue to suffer from a government that acts with impunity in its treatment of detainees." ))


(("Detainees report kicking, slapping and punching, prolonged suspension from the wrists with the hands tied behind the back, electric shocks to sensitive parts of the body ... and being kept blindfolded and/or handcuffed continuously for several days," the group said in a report.
"In several cases, the detainees suffered what may be permanent physical disability." The report also said Iraq's intelligence service had violated the rights of political opponents.
It highlighted the systematic use of arbitrary arrest, pre-trial detention of up to four months, improper treatment of child detainees and abysmal conditions in pre-trial facilities. ))

 

[Burnsys]

"This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere...were not, as some assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual prison guards, their deputies, and men who laid violent hands on the detainees."
Rudolf Hoess, SS commandant, Auschwitz.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-horton20jan20,0,2436713.story

 

[klusener]

I suppose you are saying that the Americans and Nazis are the same, that's why we should draw parallels between the two on this matter..

 

[selfAdjoint]

I suppose you are saying that the Americans and Nazis are the same, that's why we should draw parallels between the two on this matter..

If you had read the original post (let alone the news article, heaven forbid!) you would see that

1) The torturers in this case are Iraqis, and
2) The whistle-blowing agency was "US-based"

So there is no even implied equation of the US with Nazis in this post, or in the article it was based on.

They do, however tend to belie the "Everything is for the best in this best of all possible Iraqs" line that we get from all the warbloggers and other right wing sources.

 

[Bilal]

Dear selfAdjoint,

The post is about the new government and police of Iraq, which suppose to be liberated...

After no MDW weapons found, White House use ''violation of human rights'' as main reason of the war. They promise to make democratic Iraq as good example for other countries in ME ...

Unfortunately, these reports send wrong message by showing that the new Iraq is another version of Iraq of Saddam...

Current Iraqi leaders are former Baathists , especially the PM and Minister of Defense, they are corrupted and do not believe in freedom or democracy.

If you had read the original post (let alone the news article, heaven forbid!) you would see that

1) The torturers in this case are Iraqis, and
2) The whistle-blowing agency was "US-based"

So there is no even implied equation of the US with Nazis in this post, or in the article it was based on.

They do, however tend to belie the "Everything is for the best in this best of all possible Iraqs" line that we get from all the warbloggers and other right wing sources.

 

[Curious3141]

Current Iraqi leaders are former Baathists , especially the PM and Minister of Defense, they are corrupted and do not believe in freedom or democracy.

Damn right, they should send an American in there to run the country...how about Jeb Bush ?

 

[klusener]

If you had read the original post (let alone the news article, heaven forbid!) you would see that

1) The torturers in this case are Iraqis, and
2) The whistle-blowing agency was "US-based"

So there is no even implied equation of the US with Nazis in this post, or in the article it was based on.

They do, however tend to belie the "Everything is for the best in this best of all possible Iraqs" line that we get from all the warbloggers and other right wing sources.

dammit, it was my mistake.. I was basing my post on the same quote that Burnsys posted in the Civilized world article.. I was just annoyed that he (or she) kept posting the same thing over and over again...

 

[Burnsys]

dammit, it was my mistake.. I was basing my post on the same quote that Burnsys posted in the Civilized world article.. I was just annoyed that he (or she) kept posting the same thing over and over again...

sorry..

(and it's "he")

 

[Smurf]

Good Point Bilal, like it or not the Americans are indirectly responsible for everything that happens in Iraq now, rain or shine, good or bad.

 

[quantumdude]

Good Point Bilal, like it or not the Americans are indirectly responsible for everything that happens in Iraq now, rain or shine, good or bad.

I'm afraid I don't follow the logic of this inference. Would you care to explain how the US invasion of Iraq suddenly transformed the Iraqi people into zombies that are not morally responsible for their own choices?

 

[russ_watters]

So there is no even implied equation of the US with Nazis in this post, or in the article it was based on.

Oh, ye of little imagination...

like it or not the Americans are indirectly responsible for everything that happens in Iraq now, rain or shine, good or bad.

Sooo saw that coming.

 

[chound]

Would you care to explain how the US invasion of Iraq suddenly transformed the Iraqi people into zombies that are not morally responsible for their own choices?

US has enough money to buy all the Iraqis and it has military power. Would u say no to a person with a gun?(bullets loaded ofcourse and does not hesitate to torture u)

 

[russ_watters]

US has enough money to buy all the Iraqis and it has military power. Would u say no to a person with a gun?(bullets loaded ofcourse and does not hesitate to torture u)

So you're claiming:

a - the Iraqis are being paid by the US to torture their prisoners

and/or

b - the Iraqis are being forced at gunpoint to torture their prisoners.

Need I ask... do you have any evidence to support those claims?

 

[quantumdude]

US has enough money to buy all the Iraqis and it has military power. Would u say no to a person with a gun?(bullets loaded ofcourse and does not hesitate to torture u)

Thanks for reminding me of why I stay out of this Forum.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Update - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060503/ap_on_re_eu/us_torture_report

Good point - "The U.S. government is not only failing to take steps to eradicate torture. It is actually creating a climate in which torture and other ill-treatment can flourish — including by trying to narrow the definition of torture," he said.

Even if torture isn't openly accepted or legalized, the opportunity for it to occur unimpeded is. Instead of focusing on intentions and individuals (as this leads to heated arguments), we might focus on the systems that produce these results. In this way, Nationalist Socialist Germany is an appropriate analogy: the historical context of each situation allows for social elements (ideology, cultural perceptions) to sanction certain actions and condemn others.