Tough Circuit Problem, Find Current When Switch is Closed

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a circuit problem involving the calculation of currents and equivalent resistance when a switch is closed. Participants explore various methods for analyzing the circuit, including Kirchhoff's rules, mesh analysis, and the delta-Y transform. The context includes homework-related queries and attempts to solve specific parts of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their approach to defining currents and applying Kirchhoff's rules, but encounters difficulties in solving the loop equations, leading to incorrect current values.
  • Another participant suggests using voltage dividers for part (a) and emphasizes the importance of defining loop currents and polarities for part (c) to apply mesh analysis effectively.
  • A different participant introduces the delta-Y transform as a potentially useful method for simplifying the circuit analysis in part (d).
  • There is a mention of Thevenin equivalent circuits as a shortcut for solving part (c), but it is noted that familiarity with this concept is necessary.
  • One participant indicates that after solving part (c), it would be possible to calculate the equivalent resistance using the total current drawn from the voltage source.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing methods for approaching the problem, with no consensus on the correct solution for parts (c) and (d). Multiple competing views on the best analytical techniques remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' approaches depend on specific circuit analysis techniques, such as mesh analysis and the delta-Y transform, which may not be universally familiar to all. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the circuit configuration that affect the analysis.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals interested in circuit analysis, particularly those seeking to understand different methods for solving complex resistor networks and applying Kirchhoff's laws.

wadawalnut
Messages
14
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Qw0jA75.png

I got questions a) and b), but I'm stuck at c) and d).

Homework Equations


Kirchhoff's Loop and Junction rules.
Equivalent resistance in series: Req = R1 + R2
Equivalent resistance in parallel: Req = ((R1)-1 + (R2)-1)-1

The Attempt at a Solution


I really haven't gotten anywhere on question d), I cannot figure out how to reduce it and I can't tell which resistors are in series or parallel.

My procedure for question c) started with defining multiple currents: I had I1 going to the right through the 3 ohm resistor in the top left, I2 going to the right through the 6 ohm resistor on the left, I3 going downward through the switch (and the 3 ohm resistor underneath it). I also figured that the currents going through the 6 ohm and 3 ohm resistors on the right must be I1 and I2, because the wires that are directly connected to the battery should have the same current, and you can see that current splitting into I1 and I2 on the left. Since the resistors are symmetrical, I think on the right the current must split into I1 and I2 as well.
I then used the junction rule to find that I3 = I1 + I2, from the junction on the top in the middle.
Next, I made two loop equations, and this is where I really encounter a problem:
If you take the two symmetrical loops, like one loop being the loop on the left of the switch and the other being the loop on the right of the switch, you have the same amount of equations as unkowns, because you can write I3 in terms of I1 and I2. However, both loop equations will be written entirely in terms of unknown currents, which therefore makes a homogeneous linear system in which the only system is I1 = I2 = I3 = 0.
I realized that this occurs independent of the values of the resistors and currents, so I took the loop that goes from the battery to the bottom 6 ohm resistor, to the bottom 3 ohm resistor, and back to the battery.
The loop equation, going clockwise, is:
36 - 6I2 + 3I1 = 0
Then, taking the top left loop as described above, going clockwise, I get:
-3I1 - 3(I1 + I2) + 6I2 = 0
Which reduces to:
-6I1 + 3I2 = 0
Solving both loops simultaneously, I get:
I1 = 4A
I2 = 8A
I3 = 12A

However, the right answer is I3 = 1.71A
The answer for d) is 4.21 ohms.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Just so we're on the same page:

For a) when the switch is open, ##36.0 V## must drop across both parallel branches. You can use voltage dividers to obtain the voltage across the left hand ##3.00 \Omega## and ##6.00 \Omega## resistors. Then linking b to a with a voltage arrow and applying KVL will give ##V_{ab}## where ##a## is at a higher potential.

For b), it's simply series, series then parallel.

For c) when the switch closes, I would recommend defining two loop currents ##i_1, i_2## and all of the polarities on the resistors. Don't forget the current through the middle resistor is actually ##i_1 - i_2##. Then solve for the loop currents using mesh analysis.

For d), are you familiar with the ##\Delta - Y## transform? It would be pretty useful here.
 
If you know about Thevenin equivalent circuits, you can do (c) in your head: 1 5/7 A. Otherwise, use Kirchoff's.
 
After you have finished (c), you're in a position to write values for currents in all resistors. The equivalent resistance of the lot can then be calculated as 36V divided by the current drawn from that 36V source. That current comprises two currents whose values you already know (or, at least, can easily calculate).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: STEMucator

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K