Toyota Recall: Is Your Vehicle Affected?

[Ivan Seeking]

Has anyone here been affected by this?
http://www.toyota.com/recall/?srchid=K610_p228906387

Funny thing, we are long-time Toyota devotees and had this problem with a 1994 Corolla. The pedal was too close to the floor. The floor mat could either slide up and press the pedal, or it could hold a depressed pedal in place. Being that it was a stick-shift, I made a point to keep the floor mat away from the pedal and never gave it a second thought.

We have two later model Toyotas but are unaffected by the recall.

 

[logickills]

My brother and his wife have a newer Corolla and they haven't had any problems yet. In case you didn't know the word from Toyota is if it happens to you make sure not to remove the keys (you will lose power steering) and don't hold the break down pump it.

 

[turbo]

My cousin's daughter had problems with a used Corolla, but they stemmed from replacement floor mats. The clutch-pedal interlock made it hard to start the car, and the mat could trap the accelerator pedal. Her father and I trimmed the drivers' side mat back to alleviate both, and no more problems. That was a nice little car and it served her well all through college. Toyota's current troubles seem a bit more systematic. Too bad, because the Camry always seemed to be up on top of the heap for quality, along with the Accord. We have severe winters here, so my wife and I have standardized on Subaru - if we lived in a warm climate, Honda or Toyota would have gotten a lot more attention.

 

[logickills]

The current problem they said has to do with the material on the accelerator linkage arm. Something so simple overlooked is causing 1.5 million cars to be recalled. Crazy.

 

[Borg]

I'm a bit confused about the latest recall. It looked like a followup of the previous floor mat recall. My 2006 Prius was on the original floor mat recall list but is not on the current accelerator recall list that contains most of the same cars. I could guess at a number of reasons but, it would be nice to know why some cars were dropped. The fact that they aren't on the second list says that the Prius only accelerates out of control due to floor mats. I really don't believe that floor mats were ever the real problem - although Turbo-1's comments make me wonder about my opinion.

 

[edward]

Toyota has actually shut down production on the new models listed. They can't even sell the ones already on a dealership's lot. It couldn't have happened at a worse time.

I don't know exactly what year that they switched to a drive by wire accelerator, but it has to be a part of the problem. There have been several crashes of vehicles that had the floor mats removed.

Consumer Reports video.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

My cousin's daughter had problems with a used Corolla, but they stemmed from replacement floor mats. The clutch-pedal interlock made it hard to start the car, and the mat could trap the accelerator pedal. Her father and I trimmed the drivers' side mat back to alleviate both, and no more problems. That was a nice little car and it served her well all through college. Toyota's current troubles seem a bit more systematic. Too bad, because the Camry always seemed to be up on top of the heap for quality, along with the Accord. We have severe winters here, so my wife and I have standardized on Subaru - if we lived in a warm climate, Honda or Toyota would have gotten a lot more attention.

I have absolutely no concerns about this in the long run. Tsu and I have driven Toyotas over a million miles with very few repairs beyond normal maintenance; in fact I am hard-pressed to think of anything done beyond normal maintenance. We did lose one engine at about 180,000 miles, but that was my fault. Toyota has my complete confidence. They will fix the problem and move on.

My only complaint on the older Toyotas was the valve timing belt - a belt failure can take out the engine. However, we had this replaced every 50K miles [less one that went 100K by mistake] and never had a problem.

We lost the engine due to maintenance issues. Back when I was on the road a lot [flying, not driving], I was working a ridculous number of hours each week and was gone much of the time. As a result, we inadvertantly neglected maintenance for long periods of time. Dirty oil finally did us in.

 

[edward]

The current problem they said has to do with the material on the accelerator linkage arm. Something so simple overlooked is causing 1.5 million cars to be recalled. Crazy.

Most of the vehicles affected no longer have an accelerator linkage they use a drive by wire system. The accelerator assembly that sends the signal to the CPU is suspect.

They are starting to install a brake/accelerator override in new vehicles.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100112/CARNEWS/100119974

 

[edward]

The suspect accelerator assembly is made in the USA

 

[rootX]

The suspect accelerator assembly is made in the USA

Canada?

 

[edward]

Canada?

Canada is a definite possibility. Indiana based CTS Corp has a plant there.

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Toyota-Motor-Corp/ss/events/bs/010307toyotamotor/im:/100127/480/0bb16b78ee984514863a9b83cb51ff96

 

[mgb_phys]

I have absolutely no concerns about this in the long run...Toyota has my complete confidence. They will fix the problem and move on.

That seems to be the opinion of a lot of people,
Rather than deny the problem and try and suing news outlets (like a certain car maker) they have gone beyond what's was required and are likely to get a lot of brownie points from current/future buyers. Even the component supplier is saying nice things about how they will learn from this in the future - rather than everyone concentrating on liability/blame.


ps. I just got a recall for my 3year old Subaru - but nothing serious

 

[Moonbear]

There is bound to be a recall of something on every mass-produced vehicle brand out there eventually. I think the big deal about this isn't that there is a recall, but that people seem to think Toyota has known about the problem for a while and not issued a recall sooner.

Even my Subaru currently has a recall on it, but I haven't had time to get it fixed, and it doesn't sound like anything major as long as I don't try taking a lot of sharp corners with a nearly empty tank of gas (it's a fuel flow regulator of some sort that is faulty...the part that made me laugh is that when you get it fixed, the fix is just to remove it as they have decide the part isn't needed...so they put in a part that's useless and only causes trouble...ha ha). Before the Subaru, I had Fords, and there were recalls on those too. One was something I noticed before the recall came out and felt completely vindicated when I finally could show the moron mechanics that I WASN'T being "too sensitive" as they kept telling me when I was explaining something didn't "feel" right about how the car was running (it was a hard one to explain and their lugfeet couldn't feel it). The other was something really silly on a door latch or something...I just had that done when it was in for some other routine maintenance...it was a back door issue and I usually drove alone, so didn't even care.

With all the parts that go into cars and with the high volume of production, all it takes is one bad batch of something that goes undetected to affect a lot of cars. Since I personally can't afford a custom-designed car, I'll continue to take my chances with the occasional recall of the mass-produced ones.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The accelerator assembly that sends the signal to the CPU is suspect.

Toyota has specifically denied that.

It seems that cars made for the US markets used plastic for a critical part of the linkage, whereas cars not sold in the US use a metal part that has had no problems. So this may get back to the US supplier that you listed, CTS.

Also, the floor mat problem is a separate issue. There have actually been two separate problems [assuming that the electronics are not also a problem].

 

[rhody]

Also, the floor mat problem is a separate issue. There have actually been two separate problems [assuming that the electronics are not also a problem].

I agree, if the recall fixes all the problems with the gas pedal, and there is still a more remote computer (ECU) to throttle body assembly issue with some cars that survivors of crashes claim to have caused the problem, and Toyota doesn't come clean on it, then their reputation will be damaged to a large degree or ruined forever.

Two survivors on the major news swear that the pedal was not depressed and the computer opened the butterfly valve and provided max fuel. I have no reason not to believe them. There was a famous case in San Diego a few years back where a family of four were killed because they couldn't stop their Toyota Sequoia, even after calling 911, tape played in the news clip, chilling. The major problem is that this has been happening intermittently for years, not months or days and Toyota has not stepped up to the plate.

As a side Note: Mercedes back in early 2000 timeframe experimented with a fly-by-wire braking system, no direct control hydraulically to the brakes, but through a computer and after much thought, trial, etc... decided to not put it in their cars, a very wise choice IMHO.
They admit they "feel the need" to put "Bleeding edge" technology (pun intended) in their cars to keep a competitive advantage.

Rhody...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Yeah, I saw it years ago. In my opinion it wasn't bad as far as science fiction movies go.

 

[MotoH]

Honestly, if you don't know that you shift the car into neutral and not turn the car off if it the throttle gets stuck, you should be reduced to riding a bicycle. There is no excuse for driver ignorance on the road.

If your toyota begins to accelerate, try and crash it. You have a better chance at getting cash money from toyota than winning the lottery.

 

[Moonbear]

Honestly, if you don't know that you shift the car into neutral and not turn the car off if it the throttle gets stuck, you should be reduced to riding a bicycle. There is no excuse for driver ignorance on the road.

Knowing to do it while sitting there comfortably behind the keyboard of your computer and having that reaction the first time you ever experience an out-of-control situation like that while driving down a busy highway are two completely different things. This isn't like being an aircraft pilot who goes through hours and hours and hours of flight simulator training to practice reacting to unexpected emergency situations. Most people who experience something that strange in a car have no way to be prepared to actually react to it.

Think back to the first time you were driving a car that stalled. Did you immediately know what to do, or did you momentarily panic and then figure it out? And a stall is more the problem for the person driving behind you than for you. It usually has to happen a couple times before it becomes an immediate reaction to throw the car in neutral to restart.

 

[MotoH]

Knowing to do it while sitting there comfortably behind the keyboard of your computer and having that reaction the first time you ever experience an out-of-control situation like that while driving down a busy highway are two completely different things. This isn't like being an aircraft pilot who goes through hours and hours and hours of flight simulator training to practice reacting to unexpected emergency situations. Most people who experience something that strange in a car have no way to be prepared to actually react to it.

Think back to the first time you were driving a car that stalled. Did you immediately know what to do, or did you momentarily panic and then figure it out? And a stall is more the problem for the person driving behind you than for you. It usually has to happen a couple times before it becomes an immediate reaction to throw the car in neutral to restart.

Of course they are two different things, but it should be common knowledge if you are going to be driving a car.

They should be prepared for it. If you aren't prepared for the unexpected you don't belong on the road.
Would I have panicked if I was not warned of a stalling problem? Of course, but only for a second because it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out a solution instantaneously.
But did I panic? No, I was told that the truck would stall when it came to a complete stop, so I knew what to expect, all I did was push the clutch in and start it up again. Wasn't a huge deal because I knew that if it were to happen, I had the necessary tools to fix the problem. (in this case pushing the clutch in and starting it). Now that the toyota drivers know what could happen, and know how to remedy the situation, there should be absolutely no excuse for failure to execute.

This unfortunately happened to a family. They had time to call the cops, but not enough common sense to shift a car into neutral to disengage the transmission. It is sad that they died, but some common sense goes a long way.

If I had my way, our drivers education program would be exactly like the Fins. I believe it is 2 years of class with countless hours behind the wheel defensive driving. They just so happen to have the most successful WRC drivers.

 

[turbo]

Of course they are two different things, but it should be common knowledge if you are going to be driving a car.

Things that happen only very rarely can be tough to deal with in a crunch situation. I had a cop come up behind me very fast with lights and siren on, while biking on a fairly curvy road. I had no time to scrub speed so I pulled my Wide Glide over to the breakdown lane, at full speed, with brakes applied lightly. When my rear wheel crossed the paint, it locked up. Quick! What do you do? The most natural response can kill you in a heartbeat.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

when my rear wheel crossed the paint, it locked up. Quick! What do you do?

jump!

 

[MotoH]

Quick! What do you do? The most natural response can kill you in a heartbeat.

Pray

 

[turbo]

You let the rear wheel skid, feather the front brakes, and look where you WANT to go, not where you fear to go. Even on a Wide Glide with a skinny front tire, the front brakes provide most of your braking power. As you try to slow, you unload the rear tire, and unlocking a skidding rear wheel at speed can easily throw you out of control and kill you.

 

[edward]

A lot of people think that they would know what to do in and instant. And probably a lot of people do know what to do. It would be no problem for me.

On the other hand how many people even use the neutral position on a vehicle anymore except to zip right past it on the way to Drive. I don't think that the average driver could even find neutral without taking a close look at the PRNDL indicator.

I can see where the vehicles with the 3.5 liter engine and a six speed automatic could get confused.

BTW Steve Wozniac of Apple claims that he has an acceleration problem with his Prius when using his cruise control to accelerate.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runaw...a-told-us-gas-pedals-problem/story?id=9730328

DO NOT PUMP THE BRAKE:

 

[MotoH]

BTW Steve Wozniac of Apple claims that he has an acceleration problem with his Prius when using his cruise control to accelerate.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runaw...a-told-us-gas-pedals-problem/story?id=9730328

DO NOT PUMP THE BRAKE:

Well there is your problem right there. Don't buy a shyte car and you won't have a problem!

 

[turbo]

Yeah, I saw it years ago. In my opinion it wasn't bad as far as science fiction movies go.

I have to concur. Sharon Stone's part was one of her best roles.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have to concur. Sharon Stone's part was one of her best roles.

That was Toyotal Recall, geez! you guys are slipping.

 

[edward]

That was Toyotal Recall, geez! you guys are slipping.

LOL I hadn't noticed jimmysnyders post. I thought you guys had lost it.

 

[Cyrus]

Did no one think to turn the key off?

You could also shift into reverse, destroying the transmission. If the engine wants to red line it won't matter, because its now cut off from the drive shaft.

When I was in star bucks yesterday I read the cover of the washington post. They had an article about an off duty cop with his family that had this happen in their Lexus. He called 9-1-1 and said the pedal was stuck and he had no brakes (he was on the highway, so he was already going fast). Apparently they crashed into someone/something and all died. Not cool.

 

[MotoH]

Did no one think to turn the key off?

Turning the key off turns off power steering and greatly reduces breaking power which will result in a crash.

 

[Cyrus]

Turning the key off turns off power steering and greatly reduces breaking power which will result in a crash.

The cars don't have any brakes when they fail. If anything, cycling the power may fix the problem. Even if it doesn't, I'd rather hit something while slowing down than speeding up.

 

[MotoH]

The cars don't have any brakes when they fail. If anything, cycling the power may fix the problem. Even if it doesn't, I'd rather hit something while slowing down than speeding up.

I did not realize you were referring to the unfortunate accident involving the lexus. In that case the best bet would have been to switch the gear into neutral, throw the flashers on and try to slow down safely which could mean rubbing out on a jersey barrier. But in the Toyota case, turning off the car will reduce 2 essential tools in solving the problem.

 

[Cyrus]

I did not realize you were referring to the unfortunate accident involving the lexus. In that case the best bet would have been to switch the gear into neutral, throw the flashers on and try to slow down safely which could mean rubbing out on a jersey barrier. But in the Toyota case, turning off the car will reduce 2 essential tools in solving the problem.

If an off duty cop didn't think to do it, I seriously, seriously doubt 99% of the people on the road would.

 

[MotoH]

If an off duty cop didn't think to do it, I seriously, seriously doubt 99% of the people on the road would.

But now that the procedure is known, there should be no excuse that a person should fail to execute this move.

 

[EnumaElish]

If the gas pedal got stuck on a manual, wouldn't shifting down to the first gear take care of it in most situations? I drive a clutchless manual jetta, and my first reaction to "too fast" is to shift down.

OTOH, I don't know what would happen if the gas pedal got stuck on an automatic and the driver put the gear into "Park."

 

[Cyrus]

But now that the procedure is known, there should be no excuse that a person should fail to execute this move.

You hear that old lady driving the car when the gas gets stuck, no excuse grandma!

 

[EnumaElish]

How to stop without brakes: http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-a-Car-with-No-Brakes

 

[rhody]

Morning always helps me think clearer with a fresh perspective, the thought occurred to me this morning that:

a: Would we be dealing with this massive Toyota recall with a republican (business friendly) administration in place ?
b: Since the answer to a. is unknown, we must rely on the evidence at hand, it wasn't until people in govt decided that Toyota had waited too long (IMHO a fact) that led to the massive recall.
c. Would a more "conservative" and less business friendly administration (Dem or Rep) have taken the same action ?

Leads me to wonder...

Rhody...

 

[xxChrisxx]

But now that the procedure is known, there should be no excuse that a person should fail to execute this move.

Don't talk utter crap.

Do you drive? More specifically have you ever been involved in brake failure/throttle jamming open at higher speeds?

I've had both happen to me (at different times thankfully). The fact is you saying there is 'no excuse' on a message board sat in a warm comfy house is MUCH different from being sat in a drivers seat doing it. Not having brakes at 60mph is just about the **** scariest thing that has happened to me (sudden master cylinder failure). I can tell you it's not easy to fight off panic in those situations.

Having both brake failure and throttle jam open (so you are constantly accelerating and at higher speeds than I was at) would probably break me, I would like to thing of myself as calm and collected in everything I do. Panic makes you forget even the most basic instructions, as Cyrus said even a seasoned police officer (who you think would remain calm long before us mere mortals) couldn't do it.

Your 'experience' of not having panicking and having the knowledge to restart a stalled engine after the car comes to a stop is not even remotely the same game as having critical brake failure at high speed.

EDIT: Also you are 16, and live in Minnesota iirc from one of the other threads. That just about driving age and if I read it correctly, you can't even obtain a full licence.

Also it appears people have got there first.

 

[MotoH]

EDIT: Also you are 16, and live in Minnesota iirc from one of the other threads. That just about driving age and if I read it correctly, you can't even obtain a full licence.

Also it appears people have got there first.

Oh man, oh man. I honestly don't even know where to begin! I didn't even want to quote your post from sheer and utter stupidity. Well let's start here, maybe you shouldn't have bought a shyte car to begin with. I hear bicycles don't have those problems. A full license? What, so because I am too young to take the CDL test I don't have a full license? Please, the simplest google search would have told you that. Did you by chance post out of pure fury and anger? It happens some times and I forgive you for being ignorant.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Oh man, oh man. I honestly don't even know where to begin! I didn't even want to quote your post from sheer and utter stupidity. Well let's start here, maybe you shouldn't have bought a shyte car to begin with. I hear bicycles don't have those problems. A full license? What, so because I am too young to take the CDL test I don't have a full license? Please, the simplest google search would have told you that. Did you by chance post out of pure fury and anger? It happens some times and I forgive you for being ignorant.

Mechanical problems occur with all cars, and of all classes. As shown, even brand spanking new luxury range cars go wrong. I happen to like old/classic cars. Which is why I have learned to deal with problems such as this.

What angers me about every single post you have made so far, is that you are a child who is commenting on something that you clearly have no experience with what so ever. You are berating the other drivers for the way they acted, yet you simply do not know the feelign of losing all braking. It is incredibly hard to keep a cool head in those situations, because it's a sudden thing. If you know you'r brakes are going to go, you can deal with it easily. Losing them suddenly when you need them, the first reaction of 99% of people is to panic.

I have experienced this, and I have had the "oh ****, there's a pretty good chance I can die here" moment, that you clearly never have, and hope you never do.

How long have you been driving anyway?

Edit: Also please don't bypass the profanity filter, it's there for a reason.

 

[Proton Soup]

what is this thing, a Wii controller? I'm going to start referring to Toyotas as Mario Carts.

http://www.am1150.ca/files/feeds/2_1_5377242_b020127A.jpg

 

[russ_watters]

Reel it in, MotoH. Immediately.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

More problems for Toyota

Toyota Prius Brake Problems – In another serious blow to Toyota, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Thursday morning that is opening a formal defect investigation of the 2010 Toyota Prius, examining allegations that the hybrid vehicle momentarily loses braking when it goes over uneven roads or hits potholes...

http://www.showbizgalore.com/4535/prius-brake-recall-toyota-prius-recall-update-toyota-prius-brake-problems/

Also

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak says his Toyota Prius accelerates on its own...

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-wozniak3-2010feb03,0,3057333.story

He says that a slight bump to the cruise control accelerator [not the foot pedal] can cause the car to accelerate to over 100 mph.

This all drives home what I was saying earlier: Toyotas just keep going and going.

 

[xxChrisxx]

what is this thing, a Wii controller? I'm going to start referring to Toyotas as Mario Carts.

image

It's an auto, so it kind of is more like Mario's Kart than a proper car

The go pedal is my fave!

 

[MotoH]

The Prius has been a bunk car since it was made, doesn't surprise me that there is another problem with them.

 

[russ_watters]

More problems for Toyota


http://www.showbizgalore.com/4535/prius-brake-recall-toyota-prius-recall-update-toyota-prius-brake-problems/

Not too surprising with the Prius. The - shall we say - "avionics" required to run a hybrid are far more complicated than those required for a normal car. I've wondered before about the logic required to balance the needs/capabilities of regenerative brakes and conventional brakes, while mixing in anti-lock and differential braking features.

What I saw of the description sounds a lot like a problem I've thought about before: when you are braking and the situation rapidly changes (such as when hitting a pothole, as the article says), the comptuter has to weigh a lot of variables to figure out what to do. Perhaps it gets confused when light braking suddenly turns into a skid? With conventional anti-lock brakes, hitting a pothold probably feels like a momentary skid, which causes the brakes to back off and re-apply in the normal anti-lock pulsing pattern - but perhaps only pulsing onece.

 

[Borg]

My 2006 Prius has a similar problem with the brakes. I've learned to be careful when braking around potholes or very bumpy roads. It's electronics will also completely shut down the drivetrain if the wheels slip during initial acceleration. This means it can be very difficult to get moving in any real depth of snow. You can't just spin your wheels to get unstuck. I see the "avionics" as being a work in progress but, at least Toyota has been working on building the type of car that can get the type of high mileage that the Prius achieves (I'm purposely avoiding a long-winded rant against GM and Ford here).

Even with the problems, I wouldn't get rid of my Prius for anything. They are far roomier inside than you would think and I love getting 50 MPG.

 

[EnumaElish]

So currently Prius is the Airbus of automobiles?

 

[edward]

It looks like cars may getting too many high tech devices to be practical, at least for me.

Last night my son dropped by with a new Acura ZDX to show me the tech package. (mostly voice recognition) Honestly I don't really have a need to talk to my climate control system.

The vehicle did handle great but I really hate to surrender my driving skills to a bunch of electronic sensors.