Transfer Function Of A 2nd Order Circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the transfer function of a second-order RC circuit. Participants explore the implications of circuit interactions, assumptions in circuit analysis, and the methodology for deriving the transfer function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in obtaining the correct transfer function and shares their attempt.
  • Another participant suggests that the issue arises from incorrectly splitting the circuit into two parts, which neglects the interaction between sections.
  • It is proposed that treating the circuit as a whole and applying KCL (Kirchhoff's Current Law) equations may yield better results.
  • There is a discussion about the assumption that transfer functions can be multiplied when circuits are cascaded, with a clarification that this holds true only if loading effects are negligible.
  • A participant mentions the importance of buffering stages to avoid loading effects when cascading circuits.
  • One participant indicates they are still struggling with the problem after working out KCL and KVL (Kirchhoff's Voltage Law) equations, expressing uncertainty about the next steps.
  • Another participant points out that the goal is to find the ratio of output voltage to input voltage (##V_o/V_i##).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of splitting the circuit for analysis. There is no consensus on the best approach to derive the transfer function, and multiple perspectives on circuit interactions and assumptions remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on ideal assumptions regarding source and load impedances, which may not hold in practical scenarios. The discussion reflects various interpretations of circuit behavior and the implications for transfer function calculations.

Mitchy190
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I'm trying to work out the Transfer function for the 2nd order RC circuit in the attachment below: I can't seem to get the right answer :(

circuit:

Circuit2ndO.png


My answer:

workings.png



Please see attachment for my attempt and the relevant information:

View attachment f.pdf
 
Last edited:
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When you solve for a transfer function, the assumption is that you effectively drive it with an ideal source (Vi) that has zero source impedance, and "measure" the output (Vo) with a "meter" that has infinite input impedance (no loading).

Your problem stems from splitting the circuit into two parts and assuming that the two sections did not interact. In fact, the first section is loaded by the input impedance of the second, and the second "sees" the output impedance of the first. This interaction is lost when you divided the sections.
 
Mitchy190 said:
I'm trying to work out the Transfer function for the 2nd order RC circuit in the attachment below: I can't seem to get the right answer :(

circuit:

View attachment 54818

My answer:

View attachment 54819


Please see attachment for my attempt and the relevant information:

View attachment 54814

I don't think you can split and cascade the circuit like that. I think you could only treat it as two cascaded circuits if there were a buffer amp in between them (with infinite input impedance and zero output impedance).

Try treating it as one circuit, and write the KCL equations to solve for the transfer function. Does that get you closer to the book's answer?

EDIT -- dangit! Beat to the punch again :smile:
 
Last edited:
Okay thank you, i just assumed that as when you have two transfer functions connected in series you multiply them together to get the overall function.

What does this analogy actually represent then? Does it represent two circuits connected in series and assumes no loading effect? Or something else?
 
This is what I mean:

Series.png
 
Mitchy190 said:
Okay thank you, i just assumed that as when you have two transfer functions connected in series you multiply them together to get the overall function.

What does this analogy actually represent then? Does it represent two circuits connected in series and assumes no loading effect? Or something else?

Yup. It means no loading effects. And it works fine if, as Berkeman suggested, you buffer them with a suitable isolation stage.

When designing separate stages for cascading its possible to design them with a standard input impedance and assumed standard load (usually the same as the input impedance), so that the resulting transfer functions can be cascaded by multiplication (which is why you often see gear with input impedance specified, and output impedance specified). The simple solution, though, is to provide buffering amplifiers with very, very low output impedance so that loading isn't an issue.
 
Thanks a lot man (:
 
I'm still struggling with this question :( I don't know where to start, now I have worked out the KCL equation and KVL, I don't know what to do with them?
 
You're looking to find the ratio ##V_o/V_i##.
 

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