Transfer function of third order filter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a problem related to the transfer function of a third-order filter, focusing on the application of Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL) and Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL) in circuit analysis. Participants share their experiences with substitutions and algebraic manipulations to derive the output voltage in terms of the input voltage.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in finding the voltage across a capacitor (V_c1) in terms of the source voltage (Vs) and output voltage (Vout), leading to a trivial equation (0 = 0).
  • Another participant shares their experience of reaching a correct answer after multiple attempts and questions how to efficiently choose substitutions in a timed scenario.
  • A participant mentions challenges in expressing the transfer function H(ω) and struggles with complex algebra, particularly when multiplying by the complex conjugate.
  • One participant provides a suggestion to utilize a specific method or formula to aid in the problem-solving process.
  • Another participant expresses relief at finally solving the problem while commenting on the complexity of the material.
  • A humorous remark is made about the nature of the course material, comparing it to complex algebra rather than circuit analysis, with a historical reference to Charles Proteus Steinmetz.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the best approach to substitutions or the algebra involved, indicating that multiple competing views and methods remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various methods and substitutions without resolving which is the most effective, highlighting the potential for different approaches to yield different results. The discussion reflects a reliance on personal experience and trial-and-error in problem-solving.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in electrical engineering or related fields who are grappling with circuit analysis and transfer functions, particularly those seeking strategies for problem-solving in complex algebraic contexts.

gfd43tg
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Hello, I am trying to do this example problem in my textbook
ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1399350470.018469.jpg
I have my KVL and KCL equations written. I am trying to use substitutions to find V_c1 in terms of Vs and also in terms of Vout, so I can find Vout in terms of Vs. However, it seems like no matter what sequence of substitutions I do yield 0 = 0, and I am not making progress in finding the answer.

ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1399350485.593870.jpg

ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1399350498.917678.jpg
 
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Here is my closest attempt so far

ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1399352222.306117.jpg


Edit: I followed through with the algebra and it turns out to give the correct answer. My question though is this: I sort of chose to do this substitution from exhaustion. Meaning, I tried many other substitutions that yielded nothing. In a timed situation, how do I know which substitution I should make so I don't waste time trying other ones that are dead ends?
 
Last edited:
Well, since I got the part with the impedances correct, I am having a hell of a time trying to get it in the form they have with the H(ω). Any tips for this? I am trying to multiply by the complex conjugate but the algebra here is way too much and its too easy to make a mistake.
 
You need to make use of this:

attachment.php?attachmentid=69476&stc=1&d=1399364247.png


Then you can proceed like this:

attachment.php?attachmentid=69477&stc=1&d=1399364247.png
 

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Thanks for that. I will look carefully over these steps.
 
I'm having trouble getting from

''After we make these substitutions...we get these results''
 
I finally got it. That is such an annoying problem. Sometimes I wonder if this is a circuits class or a complex algebra class...
 
Maylis said:
Sometimes I wonder if this is a circuits class or a complex algebra class...

Count yourself lucky. If it hadn't been for Steinmetz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Proteus_Steinmetz

you would be solving simultaneous differential equations instead of simple algebra with complex arithmetic! :smile:
 

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