Transfer function to phase transfere

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transfer function H(jw) and the conditions under which its argument is -90 or 90 degrees. Participants are exploring the mathematical implications of these conditions within the context of control theory and signal processing.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a transfer function and seeks assistance in determining when the argument of H(jw) equals -90 or 90 degrees.
  • Another participant questions the presence of "j" in the expression, suggesting it may not belong there since the focus is on the phase.
  • A later reply expresses confusion about the equation 90 = -arctan(x) having no solutions, while noting that a solution from a textbook suggests w = 1/√(LC), which leads to an undefined expression when substituted back into the equation.
  • Another participant raises a question about the tangent function, specifically the values of tan(90 degrees) and tan(-90 degrees), and suggests a mathematically rigorous approach involving limits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the mathematical expressions and the implications of the phase conditions, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the transfer function and the conditions for the argument. The discussion also highlights potential issues with undefined expressions in the context of the proposed solutions.

Rectifier
Gold Member
Messages
313
Reaction score
4
Hello!
This is problem is a part of a bigger problem which I solved and came to a formula which is correct.

This is the equation for one transfer function. The next thing I would like to find out here is when arg(H(jw)) is -90 or 90 degrees but I get stuck.

Transfer function:
## H(jw) = \frac{R}{R(1-w^2LC)+jwL} ##This is how I proceeded till I got stuck.

## H(jw) = \frac{R}{R(1-w^2LC)+jwL} \\ H(jw) = \frac{R}{\sqrt{(R(1-w^2LC))^2+(wL)^2}e^{jarctan( \frac{wL}{R(1-w^2LC)})}} \\ H(jw) = \frac{ R }{ \sqrt{ (R(1-w^2LC))^2+(wL)^2} } e^{-jarctan( \frac{wL}{R(1-w^2LC)})} \\ ##

Then we want to know where the argument is -90 or 90 degrees.

## 90=-jarctan( \frac{wL}{R(1-w^2LC)}) ##

Here is the step where I get stuck. Could you please help me out?
Thanks in advance!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Where does the "j" on the right hand side of the last line come from?
 
M Quack said:
Where does the "j" on the right hand side of the last line come from?
Thank you for your reply!

From j here:
##e^{ -jarctan( \frac{wL}{R(1-w^2LC)})} ##

But I guess it shouldn't be there. Since I an looking for the phase.

What about ## 90=-arctan( \frac{wL}{R(1-w^2LC)}) ## on the last line then :) ?

EDIT: the problem I have is that 90=-arctan(x) has no solutions :,(. But the solution in my book is ## w= \frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}} ##. When I try to insert the solution from the book inside the equation I have gives something that is not defined:
## 90=-arctan( \frac{\frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}}L}{R(1-(\frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}})^2LC)}) \\ 90= -arctan( \frac{\frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}}L}{R(1-(\frac{1}{1}))}) \\ 90= -arctan( \frac{\frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}}L}{0})##
 
Last edited:
What does the tangent function look like, in particular, what is the value of tan(90 deg) and tan(-90 deg)?

The mathematically correct way would be to calculate the solution for +/-(90 + epsilon), and then take the limit epsilon-> 0.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
92
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
930
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K