Tricky integration by parts question

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of the function (x² - 3x + 1)e^x over the interval from 0 to 1, specifically using integration by parts. Participants are exploring the implications of the definite integral, particularly in relation to the area under the curve and the behavior of the function across the x-axis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to apply integration by parts multiple times due to the polynomial degree. There is a question about whether the integral represents the area under the curve, especially since the function crosses the x-axis. Some participants suggest splitting the integral into parts to handle areas above and below the x-axis separately.

Discussion Status

Some guidance has been offered regarding the proper handling of the integral and the importance of considering the function's behavior relative to the x-axis. Participants are actively engaging with the problem and questioning their assumptions about the integration process.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of a potential misunderstanding regarding the interpretation of the definite integral as an area versus a net value, as well as the implications of integrating functions that cross the x-axis. Participants are also reflecting on the complexity of the integration process and the necessity of evaluating limits.

thomas49th
Messages
645
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Find \int^{1}_{0} (x^{2} - 3x + 1)e^{x} dx

Homework Equations



Let f =(x^{2} - 3x + 1)
[tex g = e^{x}[/tex]
f' = 2x - 3
\int (g) dx = e^{x}

The Attempt at a Solution



We are going to have to use intergation by parts twice as the degree of the first function (f) is 2.

Important The question asks me to integrate between the limits 0 and 1. However is this asking me to find the area under the curve? I ask this because if I graph the functions' product, I am integrating above and below the x axis. Now if I was finding the area (which cannot be negative) it means I will have to integrate between the limits twice: 0 to 0.3458 and 0.3458 and 1, taking the modulus of the latter and adding them together. A glance at the question's answer shows the answer to be negative, telling me they weren't bothered about the finding the actual area, merely the summation of the area between the limits 0 and 1. Is there a SET RULE for knowing when to integrate in chunks depending on the x-axis to find the real world area and when to integrate without the worry of integrating between roots

Anyway back to my question. I am going to not bother to worry about the the graph crossing below the x axis, and integrate as a whole

First part of the integral:

(x^{2} - 3x + 1)e^{x} - \int^{1}_{0}(2x -3)e^{x}dx

again,

(x^{2} - 3x + 1)e^{x} - (2x -3)e^{x} -2\int^{1}_{0}e^{x}dx

gives

[(x^{2} - 3x + 1)e^{x} - (2x -3)e^{x} -2e^{x}]^{1}_{0}

Putting the limits in yields

-2 -2e

when the answer is apparently -0.5634

Can anybody spot where I've gone wrong?

Thanks
Thomas
 
Physics news on Phys.org
When you did integration by parts the second time, you forgot to distribute the negative to the integral -2∫ex dx. Make that positive and you'll get the right answer.
 
silly silly me :) I get the answer now

What about my other question?

Thanks
Thomas
 
thomas49th said:
The question asks me to integrate between the limits 0 and 1. However is this asking me to find the area under the curve? I ask this because if I graph the functions' product, I am integrating above and below the x axis. Now if I was finding the area (which cannot be negative) it means I will have to integrate between the limits twice: 0 to 0.3458 and 0.3458 and 1, taking the modulus of the latter and adding them together. A glance at the question's answer shows the answer to be negative, telling me they weren't bothered about the finding the actual area, merely the summation of the area between the limits 0 and 1. Is there a SET RULE for knowing when to integrate in chunks depending on the x-axis to find the real world area and when to integrate without the worry of integrating between roots
The given definite integral is just an integral, so just find the antiderivative and evaluate at the two endpoints. If the problem asks you to find the area between the curve and the x-axis, then you'll need to be concerned about where the function being integrated crosses the horizontal axis. For example, \int_0^{2\pi} sin(x) dx = 0, but if you want the area between the curve and the x-axis, you need to set up two integrals, one between 0 and pi, and the other between pi and 2pi. The two integrals will look like this:
\int_0^{\pi} (sin(x) - 0)dx + \int_{\pi}^{2\pi} (0 - sin(x))dx

In each integral above I have included more than I need to, but only to make a point; namely, that the typical area element's height must be measured so as to give a positive length.
 
Oh, I also meant to add that it's probably easier to split your original integral into three separate integrals. One of them will require integration by parts twice, another one application of integration by parts, and the last is simple. It's a lot easier to do integration by parts on x^2e^x than it is (x^2 -3x +1)e^x.
 
@ Mark44 I guess I'll need to make sure I read the question properly.

Mark44 said:
Oh, I also meant to add that it's probably easier to split your original integral into three separate integrals. One of them will require integration by parts twice, another one application of integration by parts, and the last is simple. It's a lot easier to do integration by parts on x^2e^x than it is (x^2 -3x +1)e^x.

Good idea, though I'm lazy when it comes to summing lots of define integral bits because you have to put those stupid limits in everyone and add them up, BUT it pays to break it down into easier, yet slower chunks

Thanks
Thomas
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
10K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K