Trying to calculate necessary spark energy for engine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the minimum spark energy required to initiate combustion in an engine, particularly in the context of a small scale formula car project. Participants explore various factors that influence spark energy, including engine parameters and ignition systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks rough calculations for the minimum spark energy, mentioning parameters such as cylinder pressure, air temperature, fuel type, and spark gap.
  • Another participant notes that it typically requires 25,000 volts to bridge the spark plug gap for certain compression ratios, while iridium plugs may operate at lower voltages.
  • A third participant shares information about ignition energy requirements, citing that ignition can be initiated by as little as 0.2 millijoules under optimal conditions, and provides a link to a relevant thesis.
  • Discussion about capacitive discharge (CD) ignition systems highlights their ability to produce multiple sparks at idle and longer sparks at higher RPMs, along with a mention of their potential performance benefits and drawbacks.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the ability to calculate spark energy, suggesting that experimentation is necessary and criticizing the reliability of models based on numerous parameters.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of calculating spark energy, with some providing specific voltage and energy figures while others argue that experimentation is essential and models may not be reliable.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various parameters and conditions that could affect spark energy calculations, but there is no consensus on a definitive method or formula for determining the required spark energy.

jga0001
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Hi, I am working on a school design team where we are building a small scale formula car. I am a member of the engine group, and am tasked with CALCULATING the minimum spark energy required to start combustion in our engine. I know there is an official term for this, (required spark energy?) but I can't bring it to mind right now.

Basically does anybody know the calculations to get a ball park number for spark energy?
I know the parameters will be cylinder pressure, air temperature, fuel type, RON, Humidity, cylinder temperature, A/F ratio, plug type/temperature, and spark gap among others. Even if your equations are fairly rough estimates I would at least like to hear what you have. I can't seem to find any sort of calculation regarding this at all on the internet. Thanks!
 
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normally it takes 25,000 volts to bridge the air gap of a the spark plug typically 0.025"
this is for compression ratios up to 13 to 1
iridium spark plugs can fire on 20,000 volts.
 
This might be of interest:
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/public/etd-82798-232857/materials/SLAUGHTERCONTENT.PDF

An MSD ignition system can provide up to 135 millijoules of spark energy; quite a bit considering ignition can be initiated by as little as 0.2 millijoules in the right conditions.

From Wiki:
Typical ignition energies are:

* 0.017 mJ for hydrogen
* 0.2-2 mJ for hydrocarbon vapors
* 1–50 mJ for fine flammable dust
* 40–1000 mJ for coarse flammable dust
 
couple of tings about CD ignitions..at idle speed the CD sparks many times to completely burn the fuel air mix. at higher rpm you get a long spark, like 10 to 15 degrees of crank index
also the CD recommends .050 to .060 spark plug gap...but..they are battery hogs and we lost a race once due to battery running down vs, the old point fired ignition. I researched this one time and I think CD ignition is worth maybe 5 HP vs regular ignition on V8..due mainly to more spark length, consistent spark
 
This cannot be calculated. Only experimented.

Afterwards, researchers make models with 546389175 parameters which could have fit any false and meaningless measurements, and tell "I made the right model, it fits".
 

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