Understanding Adiabatic Compression

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of adiabatic compression in thermodynamics, specifically addressing the nature of energy transfer during the process and the degrees of freedom in diatomic molecules. Participants explore the definitions and implications of adiabatic processes, as well as related quantum mechanical effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about whether the kinetic energy injected during gas compression constitutes a net heat change or energy change in the system.
  • Another participant clarifies that while work done on the gas adds energy, it does not qualify as 'heat', which is defined as energy flow due to temperature differences.
  • A participant seeks further clarification on why the rotation of a diatomic molecule along the atom-atom bond is not considered a degree of freedom.
  • Another participant provides a detailed explanation involving quantum mechanics, discussing the differences between vibrational and rotational modes in terms of energy requirements and excitation conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion includes varying interpretations of energy transfer in adiabatic processes and the classification of molecular motion, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific definitions and concepts from thermodynamics and quantum mechanics, highlighting the complexity of energy transfer and molecular behavior in different conditions. There are unresolved aspects regarding the conditions under which certain modes of motion are excited.

Kurokari
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Hi, I have a little problem understanding adiabatic compression.

Let me start with the definition of adiabatic process from wikipedia, "In thermodynamics, an adiabatic process or an isocaloric process is a thermodynamic process in which the net heat transfer to or from the working fluid is zero."

My problem is, when we compress a certain gas in a closed container, we inject our kinetic energy to decrease the volume of the container, so shouldn't this means there is a net heat change, or a change in the total energy of the system?

or this kind of injection of energy does not categorize under heat transfer, I am quite confused.

I give my greatest thanks in advance! :)
 
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Kurokari said:
My problem is, when we compress a certain gas in a closed container, we inject our kinetic energy to decrease the volume of the container, so shouldn't this means there is a net heat change, or a change in the total energy of the system?
When you do work on the gas, you definitely add energy. But that's not 'heat'. Heat is the flow of energy due to temperature difference.

Read this: https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1595186&postcount=1
 
Thank you for the link, it helped me a lot!

One more small thing, why is it that the rotation of a diatomic molecule along the atom-atom bond not counted as one of the degree of freedom?
 
Kurokari said:
One more small thing, why is it that the rotation of a diatomic molecule along the atom-atom bond not counted as one of the degree of freedom?
That's actually a quantum mechanical effect. The kinetic energy for something undergoing cyclical motion (vibration or rotation) is characterized by mx2w2, where x is the spatial size scale and w is the frequency. But here's where a big difference between vibrations and rotations appears-- for vibrations, x is a variable, and can be as large as it needs to be to get ~kT of energy into the mode in question. But for rotations, x is fixed by the size scale of the rotating object, the "lever arm" of the appropriate rotation. So when x is extremely small, as in the case you mention, it would require huge w to get kT of energy into that mode, of order w=(kT/m)1/2x-1. However, huge w, coupled with the quantum mechanical minimum action h, means you won't excite that mode, since here homework >> kT, because (kT/m)1/2x-1>> kT/h whenever x << h/(mkT)1/2. So we only exite modes like that when T is very high, and it generally isn't that high in the applications you have in mind.
 

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