Understanding Diagonalization of Lagrangian: Graduate Mechanics Text Explanation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of diagonalization of the Lagrangian in the context of small oscillations as presented in a graduate mechanics text. Participants explore the mathematical representation of the Lagrangian, its transformation from a function to a quadratic form, and the implications of using normal coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the Lagrangian is a function, not a number, and questions the meaning of diagonalizing it.
  • Another participant explains that the Lagrangian can be expressed as a quadratic form, specifically in the form L = QTAQ, where Q represents generalized coordinates and velocities.
  • A participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the nature of the Lagrangian and seeks clarification on how it can be represented as a matrix.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the Lagrangian is not strictly a matrix, quadratic forms can be diagonalized, and provides an example of how the Lagrangian for small oscillations can be represented in matrix notation.
  • It is noted that there exists a specific set of coordinates that simplifies the Lagrangian into a diagonal form, but the general form may not be diagonal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the Lagrangian and its representation. There is no consensus on the interpretation of diagonalization in this context, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these mathematical representations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the distinction between the Lagrangian as a function and its representation as a quadratic form. There are unresolved questions about the transformation process and the conditions under which the Lagrangian can be diagonalized.

shehry1
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My Graduate Mechanics text (Walecka and Fetter) says in the chapter on Small Oscillations, that the Modal Matrix Diagonalizes the Lagrangian

L = \sum_{\sigma=1}^\infty (\dot{\zeta_\sigma}^2 - \omega_\sigma \zeta_\sigma^2)

where \zeta are the normal coordinates related to the original coordinates \eta via the modal matrix.

But as far as I understand, the Lagrangian is simply a number, not a matrix. So what does the diagonalization of the Lagrangian mean.
 
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The Lagrangian is not a number, it's a function. In the case of small oscillations, it happens to be a quadratic form, and it can be written as

L = Q^{T}AQ,

Where Q = (q_1, q_2, ..., q_s, \dot{q}_1, \dot{q}_2, ..., \dot{q}_s). When the q_i are normal coordinates, A becomes a diagonal matrix.
 
dx said:
The Lagrangian is not a number, it's a function. In the case of small oscillations, it happens to be a quadratic form, and it can be written as

L = Q^{T}AQ,

Where Q = (q_1, q_2, ..., q_s, \dot{q}_1, \dot{q}_2, ..., \dot{q}_s). When the q_i are normal coordinates, A becomes a diagonal matrix.

Sorry for saying that its a number but I still didn't get it. And I think I basically want to know how can Lagrangian the function be transformed into Lagrangian the matrix. e.g. we have 2L = \dot{\eta}^T m \dot{\eta} - \eta^T v \eta. But the \eta are essentially column vectors, giving me a function in the form of a 1x1 matrix after multiplication. So what does it mean to write the Lagrangian in the form of a matrix
 
Well, its not exactly a matrix. But matrices are not the only things that can be diagonalized. Quadratic forms for example can be diagonalized. If you have some random set of generalized coordinates and velocities X = (x_i, \dot{x}_i), then the Lagrangian for small oscillations is of the form

L = \frac{1}{2}\sum (m_{ik} \dot{x_i} \dot{x_k} - k_{ik} {x_i} {x_k}).

This can be written in matrix notation as L = X^{T}AX, where A is in general not diagonal. This is the modern way of representing quadratic forms. It turns out that there is a specific set of coordinates Q_i in terms of which the Lagrangian simplifies into the form

L = \frac{1}{2}\sum_{\alpha} (\dot{Q_{\alpha}^2} - {\omega_{\alpha}^2} {Q_{\alpha}^2}).

When you write this in the form Q^{T}AQ, A will be a diagonal matrix.
 
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