Understanding Eulerian Description of a Continuum

  • Thread starter Thread starter maze
  • Start date Start date
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on clarifying the Eulerian description of a continuum, particularly regarding the material derivative of a scalar function like density. It explains how the material derivative, represented as D/Dt, accounts for both temporal changes and spatial variations in a fluid's properties. The key point is that while the spatial coordinates (x) are static in the Eulerian framework, the fluid's velocity (v) influences how properties change at those points over time. An analogy with thermometers in a river illustrates how the material derivative captures the rate of change of a property as particles move through space and time. The conversation concludes with a mutual understanding of how to interpret these concepts correctly.
maze
Messages
661
Reaction score
4
I am having some trouble understanding some things about the Eulerian description of a continuum.

Suppose we have a fluid that is continuously deforming and moving in time. If x are the spatial coordinates that the fluid is passing through, t is time, and p is a scalar function p(x,t), for example density, then for a path \gamma(t) through space the chain rule gives,

\frac{d}{dt}\rho = \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t} + \dot{\gamma} \cdot \nabla \rho

for the derivative of p in along the path \gamma.

So far so good. But then, multiple sources I have read make the jump to the following statement without justification: In general (not on a path),

\frac{d}{dt}\rho = \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t} + v \cdot \nabla \rho

where v is the velocity of the fluid at that point x and time t. This seems nonsensical though. If p(x,t) really describes the exact density at a spatial point x and time t, then shouldn't we simply have \frac{d\rho}{dt} = \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t}? In the Eulerian description, isn't x just a static point in space? Plus, what is the fluid velocity v doing in there?

I've been stuck on this for several hours, and I'm pretty sure there's an important but subtle point I'm missing.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Eulerian coordinates co-move with the material. As a result, when evaluating how the material deforms or flows, the problem essentially reduces to a comparison of how the local coordinate system has deformed. Usually, to avoid confusion, authors write out the 'original' coordinates in capital letters: (X,Y,Z) and the deformed coordinates in lowercase: (x,y,z). Also, the material derivative is written as D/Dt rather than d/dt. Unfortunately, a side-effect (IMO) is entirely too many different symbols.

So, in your question- in the Eulerian description, X is static, but x is not, so d[f(x,t)]/dt must be expanded by the chain rule, resulting in the material derivative.

Does that help? It's worthwhile to spend the time understanding this.
 
So, ok let me see if I understand. Would it be a correct interpretation to say that the material derivative of some function p, (Dp/Dt)(x,t), measures the rate of change of p along the flow of a particular particle crossing through x at time t?

For example, suppose you drop a bunch of thermometers into a river, all over the place. Then as time progresses the thermometers will flow with the river, tracing out trajectories in space. Further, you could make a graph of temperature against time for each thermometer, as it moves around. Then pick a point in the river x and a time t, and find the closest thermometer (they are all over the place so this should be no problem (-: ). The material derivative at x,t is the slope of the closest thermometer's temperature vs time graph, at time t.

Written another way, pick some x,t. If the deformation is 1-1, then this x,t corresponds to a unique reference place X. The particle starting at X traces out a path \gamma with velocity v, starting at X and passing through x at time t. We have already seen that the rate of change of p as measured by an observer traveling along a path \gamma is given by,

<br /> \frac{D}{Dt}\rho = \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t} + \dot{\gamma} \cdot \nabla \rho<br />

but here \dot{\gamma}=v, so we have

<br /> \frac{D}{Dt}\rho = \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t} + v \cdot \nabla \rho<br />

Is this the right way of thinking?
 
I think you are close. The function p varies both in space and time, say 'the weather', for example. Then the first term of
\frac{D}{Dt}\rho = \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t} + v \cdot \nabla \rho

corresponds to you sitting on the ground and the weather changing. The second term corresponds to you getting in a car or airplane and going somewhere else.

Going with your thermometer analogy, becasue the thermometers are moving in the river, asking how T(x,t) varies means keeping track both of how x varies (x = x(X,t)) as well as t.

How's that?
 
Thank you, I understand now.
 
Hello! Let's say I have a cavity resonant at 10 GHz with a Q factor of 1000. Given the Lorentzian shape of the cavity, I can also drive the cavity at, say 100 MHz. Of course the response will be very very weak, but non-zero given that the Loretzian shape never really reaches zero. I am trying to understand how are the magnetic and electric field distributions of the field at 100 MHz relative to the ones at 10 GHz? In particular, if inside the cavity I have some structure, such as 2 plates...
Back
Top