Understanding Faraday's Law with Solenoids

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Faraday's Law as it applies to solenoids, specifically addressing the reasoning behind multiplying the changing magnetic flux for one loop by the number of turns (N) in the solenoid to calculate the electromotive force (emf). The scope includes conceptual clarification and exploratory reasoning regarding the principles of electromagnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the common practice of calculating the emf in a solenoid by multiplying the changing flux for one loop by the number of turns (N) but questions the deeper reasoning behind this approach.
  • Another participant suggests that if a single loop produces a certain emf, then multiple loops in series would produce a total emf that is the sum of the individual emfs, likening it to batteries in series.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the addition of turns in the context of Faraday's Law, contrasting it with the addition of currents in Ampere's Law, and seeks clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the deeper reasoning behind the multiplication of the changing flux by the number of turns in a solenoid. There are differing viewpoints on the analogy of loops to batteries in series, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the fundamental understanding of the principle.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of the loops and their electrical configuration may not be fully articulated, and the discussion does not resolve the underlying principles of why the addition of turns leads to the multiplication of emf.

davidbenari
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It is a well known fact that whenever we want to calculate the emf in a solenoid we usually multiply the changing flux for one loop times N, which is the number of turns in the solenoid.

But why is this?

For example, in the case of amperes law, I know that it makes sense to add currents because you are considering the line integral, one can think of it like

##\oint \mathbf{B} \cdot \mathbf{dl} = \oint (\mathbf{\sum_i B_i}) \cdot \mathbf{dl} = \sum_i ( \oint \mathbf{B} \cdot \mathbf{dl} ) _ i = \sum_i \mu_0 I = \mu_0 \sum_i I_i ##

In that case, currents clearly should add, but I don't see why currents or turns in the solenoid are added in any "deep" sense (when applying Faraday's law).

Thanks and sorry if my question is unclear.
 
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davidbenari said:
It is a well known fact that whenever we want to calculate the emf in a solenoid we usually multiply the changing flux for one loop times N, which is the number of turns in the solenoid.

But why is this?

For example, in the case of amperes law, I know that it makes sense to add currents because you are considering the line integral, one can think of it like

##\oint \mathbf{B} \cdot \mathbf{dl} = \oint (\mathbf{\sum_i B_i}) \cdot \mathbf{dl} = \sum_i ( \oint \mathbf{B} \cdot \mathbf{dl} ) _ i = \sum_i \mu_0 I = \mu_0 \sum_i I_i ##

In that case, currents clearly should add, but I don't see why currents or turns in the solenoid are added in any "deep" sense (when applying Faraday's law).

Thanks and sorry if my question is unclear.
Is there anything you can do to condense this or make it clearer?
 
davidbenari said:
It is a well known fact that whenever we want to calculate the emf in a solenoid we usually multiply the changing flux for one loop times N, which is the number of turns in the solenoid.

But why is this?

Gah, I can't believe nobody tackled this, including me. ?:)

Suppose you have a single loop that produces (for a given changing-magnetic-field configuration) an emf of 1.5 volts. Now suppose you have a coil or solenoid containing, say, 5 of these loops (turns). The loops are electrically in series, so you have 5 emf's in series, 1.5 volts each. It's like having 5 (ideal) dry-cell batteries in series, each with an emf of 1.5 volts, producing a total emf of 7.5 volts.
 
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jtbell:

I guess you have answered my Q. thanks.
 

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