Understanding Free Electrons: Movement and Interaction with Nonconductors

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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around the concept of free electrons, particularly in the context of their movement and interaction with nonconductors, such as fur and ebonite bars. Participants explore the definitions and implications of terms like "nonconductor," "friction," and "free electron," raising questions about their applicability in different materials and scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a "nonconductor" can be equated with an insulator.
  • There is uncertainty about the meaning of "friction" for electrons in solids, particularly in the context of static electricity.
  • A participant expresses confusion about why an electron in zero potential cannot be considered a free electron, suggesting that this definition may be insufficient.
  • One participant, a middle school science teacher, seeks clarification on why electrons moving between a fur and an ebonite bar cannot be classified as free electrons, as their students have raised this question.
  • Another participant explains that the spark observed in static electricity is not due to free electrons but involves a complex process of ionization of gases.
  • There is a suggestion that the electrons in conductors are approximately free due to their movement in a weak periodic potential.
  • A participant proposes the term "bound electron" as a possible classification for electrons in nonconductors.
  • Communication issues are noted, particularly regarding the understanding of concepts across different languages.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the definitions and characteristics of free electrons, nonconductors, and the nature of electron movement. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the definitions or classifications proposed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings due to language barriers and the need for clearer definitions of terms like "friction" and "free electron" in different contexts.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the conceptual understanding of electron behavior in different materials, particularly educators and students in physics and materials science.

ggandy
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Can we call it free electron that moves between nonconductor by friction?
 
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ggandy said:
Can we call it free electron that moves between nonconductor by friction?

This is so puzzling, it is making no sense.

1. Is a "nonconductor" an insulator?

2. What exactly is "friction" for an electron in a solid?

3. Why can't a "free electron" be an electron in zero potential? Why is that definition not sufficient?

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
This is so puzzling, it is making no sense.

1. Is a "nonconductor" an insulator?

2. What exactly is "friction" for an electron in a solid?

3. Why can't a "free electron" be an electron in zero potential? Why is that definition not sufficient?

Zz.
1. noncoductor. for example a fur, a ebonite bar

2. between a fur and a ebonite bar

3. I'm sorry about that is not sufficient. Maybe it cause my english level is not high. I'm a Korean science teacher in the middle school.

In our country, In general we teach free elctrons exist only in metal materials. but today my students asked me why we can't call it free electron that moves between a fur and a ebonite bar. and he asked me " Isn't it free?"

so I need a help.
 
ggandy said:
1. noncoductor. for example a fur, a ebonite bar

2. between a fur and a ebonite bar

3. I'm sorry about that is not sufficient. Maybe it cause my english level is not high. I'm a Korean science teacher in the middle school.

In our country, In general we teach free elctrons exist only in metal materials. but today my students asked me why we can't call it free electron that moves between a fur and a ebonite bar. and he asked me " Isn't it free?"

so I need a help.

Then we definitely have communication/language issues.

If what I'm guessing is correct, you are talking about static electricity and the "spark" that occurs between two surfaces. Tell your students that this spark is NOT "free electrons". Rather, it is a complex process of electrons ionizing gasses/air molecules, etc.

Tell your students that free electrons are electrons moving in a constant potential energy. The electrons in a conductor are APPROXIMATELY free, because they are moving in a weak periodic potential that sometime can be approximated as being free.

There is no "friction" in the motion of electrons here, unless you are talking about scattering.

Zz.
 
ggandy said:
1. noncoductor. for example a fur, a ebonite bar

2. between a fur and a ebonite bar

3. I'm sorry about that is not sufficient. Maybe it cause my english level is not high. I'm a Korean science teacher in the middle school.

In our country, In general we teach free elctrons exist only in metal materials. but today my students asked me why we can't call it free electron that moves between a fur and a ebonite bar. and he asked me " Isn't it free?"

so I need a help.
Should I call it a bound electron?
 
ZapperZ said:
Then we definitely have communication/language issues.

If what I'm guessing is correct, you are talking about static electricity and the "spark" that occurs between two surfaces. Tell your students that this spark is NOT "free electrons". Rather, it is a complex process of electrons ionizing gasses/air molecules, etc.

Tell your students that free electrons are electrons moving in a constant potential energy. The electrons in a conductor are APPROXIMATELY free, because they are moving in a weak periodic potential that sometime can be approximated as being free.

There is no "friction" in the motion of electrons here, unless you are talking about scattering.

Zz.
http://cafe.naver.com/ggandyscience3/3169
The "friction" in my question is the process between two objects like the linked movie.
then could I call it an electron of complex process?
I'm absolutely thanks for your sepcific explanation. thank you.
 
I don't think we're communicating, and a movie in Korean is not helping.
 
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