Understanding Propane Storage: Pressure with Cylinders Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the storage of propane in cylinders, specifically regarding the pressure dynamics when connecting a pressurized propane cylinder to an unpressurized one. Participants explore how temperature affects pressure, the behavior of liquid propane, and the implications of connecting cylinders under different thermal conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether connecting a pressurized propane cylinder to an unpressurized one would result in a pressure reduction to 6 bar and whether the cylinders are pressurized with air before propane is added.
  • Another participant explains that propane maintains pressure through boiling, with temperature affecting the tank pressure and that connecting an empty bottle to a full one will not halve the pressure due to the presence of liquid propane that boils off.
  • A participant provides specific vapor pressure values for propane at different temperatures, noting that the specified 12 bar pressure likely represents the maximum expected during fire exposure.
  • There is a discussion about the effects of temperature on the pressure in connected cylinders, particularly if one is in warm water and the other in cold water, suggesting that gas could evaporate and condense into the colder container.
  • Another participant reiterates that all liquid in the warm container would evaporate and boil, moving to condense in the cold container, with the system pressure reflecting the vapor pressure at the temperature of the cold container.
  • It is noted that the pressure in the warm container may not rise to the vapor pressure due to the propane escaping, emphasizing the behavior of propane under these conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the behavior of propane under different conditions, with some agreeing on the effects of temperature and pressure dynamics while others raise questions about specific scenarios. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact outcomes of connecting the cylinders under varying thermal conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the dependence of pressure on temperature and the behavior of propane in different states, but there are unresolved assumptions about the initial conditions of the cylinders and the specifics of the pressure changes when connected.

don_greene
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I have been wondering about how Propane is stored in a liquid state at 12 bar in cylinders. If a cylinder of propane was connected to a cylinder of the same size that was not pressurised would the pressure then across the two cylinders be reduced to 6 bar and the propane possibly expand? If this is the case then are the cylinders pressurised with normal air before propane is added? Or does the temperature of the propane predetermine the pressure of the cylinders in which it is stored and so the second cylinder would be raised to 12 bar also, this seems unlikely to me however.
 
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The propane compresses itself by boiling. As it boils the pressure in the tank increases until an equilibrium is reached. Temperature definitely affects tank pressure. Propane tanks are often filled to a certain percent based on ambient temp. Connecting an empty bottle a full will not halve the pressure as there will be liquid propane that boils off.
 
So long as liquid propane is present, it will boil off to raise the pressure in the container to the vapour pressure of propane at that temperature. The vp of propane will be about 25 psi at 0°C and 40 psi at 20°C. At about 100°C the vp will be close to the 12 Bar design pressure.
The specified 12 Bar pressure is probably the maximum cylinder pressure expected when being sprayed with water during a fire.

Connecting a liquid propane cylinder to an evacuated cylinder will not change the propane pressure once the temperature stabilises.
 
Ok thanks for the explanations, so the propane expanding in container one will bring up the pressure of container two to roughly the same pressure. Does this mean that if container one were sitting in a bath of warm water and container two in a bath of cold water that gradually after some time all the gas would evaporate and condense into container two?
 
don_greene said:
Does this mean that if container one were sitting in a bath of warm water and container two in a bath of cold water that gradually after some time all the gas would evaporate and condense into container two?
All the liquid in container 1 would evaporate. Liquid would boil in hot container 1 and move to condense in cold container 2. The pressure in the system would be the vp at the temperature of container 2, where the liquid reservoir forms.
 
Baluncore said:
All the liquid in container 1 would evaporate. Liquid would boil in hot container 1 and move to condense in cold container 2. The pressure in the system would be the vp at the temperature of container 2, where the liquid reservoir forms.

So in this instance the pressure in container one wouldn't necessarily rise to the vp of the temperature of the warm bath because the propane can escape, instead the propane boils and moves to container two where it condenses. Thanks a million, for the reply by the way.
 

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