Understanding Recoil in Photon Emission and the Role of Quantum Electrodynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the recoil of an electron during photon emission, particularly in the context of quantum electrodynamics (QED). Participants explore the implications of wavefunction collapse and the entanglement between the electron and photon, as well as the behavior of lasers in relation to photon emission and recoil.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the direction and timing of electron recoil when a photon is emitted without a defined direction prior to wavefunction collapse.
  • Another participant suggests that the electron and photon are entangled, meaning their momenta and directions are not well-defined until a measurement is made.
  • A different participant emphasizes that the wavefunction for the entire system (electron and photon) must be considered, rather than treating them separately, and that the collapse of this wavefunction defines the recoil and momentum.
  • One participant argues that the question of recoil timing is meaningless in transient states of interaction and highlights the need for a delay time due to scattering.
  • Another participant raises concerns about the concept of wavefunction collapse for photons, questioning its applicability and suggesting that lasers produce coherent states rather than discrete photons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of wavefunction collapse, the treatment of photons in quantum mechanics, and the implications for electron recoil. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions and assumptions about wavefunctions, entanglement, and the nature of photon emission in lasers. The discussion also touches on the complexities of QED and the challenges in defining transient states.

Danyon
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This is the second time I've asked this question, I thought I'd add some extra details. Consider a single accelerating electron, this electron emits a single photon wave which radiates out spherically in a superposition, What direction and what time does the electron recoil if there is no defined direction for the photon before it's wavefunction collapses? also, what would happen if say a laser is pointed at an empty region of space, such that the photons wave function never collapses, does the laser recoil?
 
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Danyon said:
Consider a single accelerating electron, this electron emits a single photon wave which radiates out spherically in a superposition, What direction and what time does the electron recoil if there is no defined direction for the photon before it's wavefunction collapses?

So long as the photon does not have a well-defined momentum (including direction), neither does the recoiling electron have a well-defined momentum/direction. They are entangled. When/if you measure the photon momentum/direction sufficiently precisely, then you also know the recoiling electon's momentum/direction, and vice versa.

This assumes that the electron's initial momentum/direction is known sufficiently precisely.
 
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Danyon said:
What direction and what time does the electron recoil if there is no defined direction for the photon before its wavefunction collapses?
When you say "its wavefunction" you're thinking of the situation as if the photon has its own wave function separate from that of the electron. That's not how quantum mechanics works; instead we have a single wavefunction for the entire system consisting of an electron and a photon (warning - this is a huge oversimplification that you'll have to unlearn when it comes time for QFT, but it works for now). Until this wavefunction collapses neither the electron recoil nor the photon momentum are defined; the collapse assigns definite values to both.

also, what would happen if say a laser is pointed at an empty region of space, such that the photon's wave function never collapses, does the laser recoil?
Again, we have one wave function that covers the laser and the photon. Measuring the recoil of the laser collapses the whole thing.
 
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It's in fact most easily (and only correctly!) answered in terms of QED. The most simple setup is the scattering of a charged particle (electron) on an external electromagnetic field (e.g., a heavy atomic nucleus which you can approximately treat a classical static field). Then there is certain probability for the electron just being scattered elastically, emitting one photon, emitting two photons, and so on. The leading-order bremsstrahlung diagram is the one where one photon is emitted on the electron line, and energy and momentum are always conserved (when the recoil to the heavy nucleus is considered of course) conserved. Note however, that you have to take into account the infrared problems of the bremsstrahlung. You have to add also the one-loop correction to the vertex for elastic scattering, which is at the same order as the tree-level single-photon bremsstrahlung diagram (an example for the Block-Nordsieck theorem).

The other questions cannot be answered from first principles. Concerning the time at which the electron recoils, this is a meaningless idea since you cannot even unambigously define what an electron might be in the transient state of interaction. Only a delay time due to scattering can be defined by the energy derivative of the corresponding scattering phase shifts.

Also, I don't understand what you mean by "collapse of the wave function" for a photon. It's even questionable, whether there is a collapse of a wave function in a physical sense at all, where the very concept of wave function is applicable. For photons there is no such concept of a wave function.

Last but not least a Laser doesn't emit photons but (a very good approximation to) coherent states of the em. field.
 
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