Understanding the Relativistic Action for a Point Particle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the action for a relativistic point particle, particularly its relationship to the infinitesimal invariant length ds and how this concept can be understood intuitively. Participants explore the implications of this action in both special relativity (SR) and general relativity (GR), as well as its connection to classical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the action for a relativistic point particle is proportional to the infinitesimal invariant length ds, questioning the intuitive understanding of this relationship.
  • Others argue that in classical mechanics, the Lagrangian is defined as the difference between kinetic energy and potential energy, while in relativity, it relates to proper time or invariant length when potential is absent.
  • A participant suggests that the principle of extremal action can be viewed as the principle of extremal aging, where a particle moves to maximize proper time.
  • It is noted that the L=T-V relationship is not applicable in relativistic mechanics, with a reference to Golstein's interpretation of a relativistic Lagrangian providing proper equations of motion.
  • One participant presents a mathematical derivation of a single-particle Poincare invariant action, leading to a relativistic free-particle Lagrangian expressed in terms of invariant length.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the intuitive understanding of the action's relationship to invariant length, with some asserting that classical definitions do not carry over to relativity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most intuitive explanation and the applicability of classical mechanics principles in a relativistic context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of kinetic and potential energy, and the unresolved nature of how classical mechanics principles translate to relativistic frameworks.

Higgsono
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The action for a relativistic point particle is proportional to the infinitesimal invariant length ds. Is there some more intuitive explanation for this?

The action is defined by taking the time intergal over the difference between the kinetic energy and the potential energy. So how does this relate to the integral over the invariant length?
 
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Higgsono said:
The action for a relativistic point particle is proportional to the infinitesimal invariant length ds. Is there some more intuitive explanation for this?

The action is defined by taking the time intergal over the difference between the kinetic energy and the potential energy. So how does this relate to the integral over the invariant length?

You mean: the Lagrangian in classical mechanics is KE - PE and the Lagrangian in Relativity (if there is no potential) is proper time or invariant length. Why?

I'm not sure there is an intuitive answer. But, if you take away the potential in classical physics, you get motion at constant velocity in a straight line. And, in SR, constant velocity in a straight line maximises the invariant length. And, if you extend this principle to GR and curved spacetime it seems to generalise nicely.
 
Higgsono said:
The action for a relativistic point particle is proportional to the infinitesimal invariant length ds. Is there some more intuitive explanation for this?

I'd suggest thinking of the infinitesimal invariant length ds as infinitesimal proper time, so that the principle of extremal action becomes equivalent to the principle of extremal aging, i.e. that a particle moves in such a way as to extremize proper time.

The action is defined by taking the time intergal over the difference between the kinetic energy and the potential energy.

That's true in non-relativistic mechanics, it's not true in relativistic mechanics. My paraphrase of what Golstein has to say on the topic (which I've reviewed recently for a different thread) is that a relativistic Lagrangian is one that gives the proper relativistic equations of motion.

Basically, L=T-V only works for non-relativistic mechanics, so it's just not adequate as a definition of the Lagrangian.
 
If you analyse the problem to find a single-particle Poincare invariant action, using the coordinate time as the parameter applying Noether's theorem you get (up to a multiplicative constant, ##A##)
$$L=-A \sqrt{\eta_{\mu \nu} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu}},$$
where the dot indicates the derivative wrt. coordinate time. Now
$$L=-A \sqrt{c^2-\dot{\vec{x}}^2}=-A c \sqrt{1-\dot{\vec{x}}^2/c^2}.$$
For ##|\dot{\vec{x}}| \ll c## you get
$$L \simeq -A c \left (1-\frac{1}{2c^2} \dot{\vec{x}}^2 \right).$$
Comparing to the non-relativistic case you have to set
$$A=m c,$$
because then the action gets
$$L \simeq =-m c^2 + \frac{m}{2} \dot{\vec{x}}^2.$$
The relativistic free-particle Lagrangian thus finally is
$$L=-m c \sqrt{\eta_{\mu \nu} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu}}.$$
 

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