Unstructured Sets and Monoid Morphisms in Category Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of monoid morphisms within the framework of category theory, specifically as presented in Harold Simmonds' book. Participants seek clarification on the definition of a category, the properties of monoid morphisms, and the implications of overloading symbols in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter questions where the requirement for a monoid morphism to satisfy $$\phi ( r \star s ) = \phi (r) \star \phi (s)$$ and $$\phi (1) = 1$$ is derived from the definition of a category.
  • Some participants suggest that Simmonds is not defining why monoids are a category but rather describing the properties of a monoid morphism.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of "overloading" operation and unit symbols in the context of morphisms between two monoids, with a focus on the notation used for operations and units in different contexts.
  • One participant emphasizes that definitions of categories typically focus on morphisms rather than individual elements of algebraic structures.
  • Another participant points out that the main focus of the section is the definition of the category Mon, and they encourage others to describe the objects, arrows, identity arrows, and composition rule of Mon based on their understanding of monoids.
  • Peter references additional resources on monoids from other texts, indicating ongoing study and exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of Simmonds' intentions regarding the definition of a category and the properties of monoid morphisms. There is no consensus on the implications of overloading symbols or the primary focus of the section.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that definitions of categories often do not address individual elements of structures, which may lead to confusion regarding the relationship between morphisms and the elements of monoids.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in category theory, monoids, and the properties of morphisms within algebraic structures may find this discussion beneficial.

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I am reading the book: "An Introduction to Category Theory" by Harold Simmonds and am currently focused on Section 1.2: Categories of Unstructured Sets ...

I need some help in order to fully understand Example 1.2.1 on page 9 ... ...

Example 1.2.1 reads as follows:
View attachment 8336
In the above example we read the following: " ... ... A monoid morphism

$$R \stackrel{ \phi }{ \longrightarrow } S$$

between two monoids is a function that respects the furnishings, that is

$$\phi ( r \star s ) = \phi (r) \star \phi (s)$$ and $$\phi (1) = 1$$

for all $$r,s \in R$$. (Notice that we have overloaded the operation symbol and the unit symbol ... ... )

... ... "
My question is as follows:Where in the definition of a category does it follow that we must have $$\phi ( r \star s ) = \phi (r) \star \phi (s)$$ and $$\phi (1) = 1$$ for all $$r,s \in R$$ ...

and further ... ...

what does Simmons mean when he writes "Notice that we have overloaded the operation symbol and the unit symbol ... ... " ? Help will be appreciated ...

Peter***EDIT*** Oh! Reading the section again, maybe Simmons is not indicating why monoids are a category ... but simply describing a monoid morphism ... s that correct?====================================================================================The above post refers to the definition of a category ... so I think MHB readers would benefit from having access to Simmons' definition of a category ... so I am providing access to the same ... as follows:
View attachment 8337
View attachment 8338
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/8339
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/8340Hope that helps ...

Peter
 
Last edited:
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Peter said:
Reading the section again, maybe Simmons is not indicating why monoids are a category ... but simply describing a monoid morphism
Exactly. Definitions of categories of algebraic structures usually don't mention elements of those structures: individual monoid elements, vectors and so on. Instead categories are defined in terms of appropriate morphisms, i.e., maps that commute with the operations of the structure at hand.

Peter said:
what does Simmons mean when he writes "Notice that we have overloaded the operation symbol and the unit symbol ... ... " ?
In the definition of morphism we have two monoids: $R$ and $S$. Yet operations in both of them are denoted by $\star$, and units in both of them are denoted by 1. Overloading (at least in programming) is precisely this: when the same identifier denotes different things in different contexts. Formally one has to write $\phi(r\star_R s)=\phi(r)\star_S\phi(s)$ and $\phi(1_R)=1_S$ where $\star_R$ and $1_R$ are the operation and unit of $R$ and $\star_S$ and $1_S$ are the operation and unit of $S$.

It's an interesting technical problem in automated reasoning to implement overloading in this context. Fortunately, with the technique called "type classes", which originated in Haskell programming language, this is possible. This allows writing $\phi(r\star s)=\phi(r)\star\phi(s)$ without additional annotations, and the computer is able to figure out that the first $\star$ means $\star_R$ while the second one means $\star_S$.

Do we have an off-topic tag on this forum?
 
In addition to the last post

Simmons is indeed describing the properties of a monoid here

But the highlight of this section is the definition of the category Mon

Can you now, using what you have learned about monoids, decribe the objects, arrows, identity arrows, and the composition rule of Mon ?

Later, in exanple 1.5.1, you will learn that one monoid M, can be viewed as a category too
 
steenis said:
In addition to the last post

Simmons is indeed describing the properties of a monoid here

But the highlight of this section is the definition of the category Mon

Can you now, using what you have learned about monoids, decribe the objects, arrows, identity arrows, and the composition rule of Mon ?

Later, in exanple 1.5.1, you will learn that one monoid M, can be viewed as a category too
Thanks to Evgeny and Steenis for their help ...

Note that I found sections on monoids in the following two books:

(1) Category Theory (Second Edition) by Steve Awodey ... ... Section 1.4, Example 13

(2) Conceptual Mathematics: A First Introduction to Categories (Second Edition) ... ... Session 13: Monoids I am studying the material on monoids in the above two publications ...

Thanks again,

Peter
 
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