Urgent! Max Heat Withdrawn from Low-Temp Reservoir

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around calculating the maximum heat withdrawn from a low-temperature reservoir using a thermodynamic refrigerator driven by the work done during the isothermal expansion of a monatomic ideal gas. The user initially struggles with negative work calculations, realizing that they mistakenly considered work done on the gas instead of by the gas. They then proceed to derive the relationship between temperatures and work, ultimately questioning the validity of their calculated heat withdrawn, which seems implausibly high compared to the initial internal energy of the system. The conversation highlights the importance of correctly interpreting thermodynamic equations and relationships in solving such problems. Clarification on the calculations and thermodynamic principles is sought to resolve the discrepancies.
Telemachus
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Urgent! Thermodynamic refrigerator

Homework Statement


One mole of a monatomic ideal gas is allowed to expand isothermally from an initial volume of 10 liters to a final volume of 15 liters, the temperature being maintained at 400K. The work delivered is used to drive a thermodynamic refrigerator operating between reservoirs of temperatures 200 and 300K. What is the maximum of heat withdrawn from the low-temperature reservoir?

This is what I did:
u=cRT \rightarrow T=\frac{cR}{u}

Pv=RT \rightarrow P=\frac{RT}{v}

u=cRT=constant

du=\frac{u}{cR}ds-\frac{RT}{v}dv=0 \rightarrow \Delta s=r \ln\frac{v_f}{v_0}

Q_{12}=T \Delta S=400R \ln 1.5=-W_{12}

The thing is I'm having a negative work. I assume I'm making something wrong, I just can't see the mistake.

I have my exam tomorrow, so any help will be appreciated.
 
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Telemachus said:

Homework Statement


One mole of a monatomic ideal gas is allowed to expand isothermally from an initial volume of 10 liters to a final volume of 15 liters, the temperature being maintained at 400K. The work delivered is used to drive a thermodynamic refrigerator operating between reservoirs of temperatures 200 and 300K. What is the maximum of heat withdrawn from the low-temperature reservoir?

This is what I did:
u=cRT \rightarrow T=\frac{cR}{u}

Pv=RT \rightarrow P=\frac{RT}{v}

u=cRT=constant

du=\frac{u}{cR}ds-\frac{RT}{v}dv=0 \rightarrow \Delta s=r \ln\frac{v_f}{v_0}

Q_{12}=T \Delta S=400R \ln 1.5=-W_{12}

The thing is I'm having a negative work. I assume I'm making something wrong, I just can't see the mistake.

I have my exam tomorrow, so any help will be appreciated.
It is not that complicated. Calculating the work done by the gas is fairly straight forward and does not require calculation of the heat flow:

W = \int_{V_0}^{V_f}PdV = \int_{V_0}^{V_f}RTdV/V = RT\ln(V_f/V_0) = RT\ln(1.5)

If you set \Delta Q = -W you are stating that W is the work done ON the gas. So in your result W_{12} is the work done ON the gas.

AM
 


Thanks!

I have another problem now.
I've proceeded this way with the exercise. From then, I've made a scheme, similar to the exercise you helped me before (I think its pretty much like the same).

attachment.php?attachmentid=34948&stc=1&d=1303914541.png


\ln \frac{T_{AF}}{T_{A0}}=\ln \frac{T_{BF}}{T_{0F}} \rightarrow T_{AF}=\frac{2T_{BF}}{3}

W=Q_h-Q_c \rightarrow 400\ln(1.5)=\frac{3}{2}(T_{BF}-300)-\frac{3}{2}(T_{AF}-200)\rightarrow T_{BF}\approx 624K

Now, I try to get Qc, but I think the result I get is wrong, I don't want you to make the numbers, just want you to tell me if what I did is wrong, or if its okey and the mistake is given by a simple error of calculus.

Q_c=W-Q_h \rightarrow Qc=-400R\ln(1.5)+R\frac{3}{2}(624-300)
It gives Q_c \approx R 324
I think it doesn't make much sense this result. But I'm not sure. The impression it gave me is that its bigger than the internal energy of the system A for it's initial state, which will be a big contradiction. U0=cRT=3/2 R 200K

Thank you so very very much for your predisposition for helping and your fast answer!
 

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