Very clever and difficult number theory puzzle (with generalization)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a number theory puzzle involving 10-digit natural numbers where each digit represents the count of its corresponding numeral in the number itself. Participants explore whether the set of such numbers is finite and seek to identify all valid examples. The conversation extends to generalizations in different numerical bases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the number of valid 10-digit natural numbers is finite, but the challenge lies in constructing them all.
  • There is uncertainty regarding whether numbers like "0100000000" should be considered valid examples due to their digit count.
  • One participant suggests that the constraints may be too restrictive to allow for any valid combinations, particularly in base 2, where no combinations meet the requirements.
  • Another participant proposes that 2100010006 is a solution for base 10 and possibly the only one, while discussing the implications of the number of zeros in the construction.
  • There are claims that bases 2 and 3 have no solutions, while base 4 may have one or two solutions depending on the inclusion of leading zeros.
  • A general solution for bases 7 and above is posited, involving a specific arrangement of digits, though this remains unproven.
  • Participants challenge the validity of certain numbers previously suggested as solutions, pointing out discrepancies in their digit counts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity of specific examples and the existence of solutions across different bases. There is no consensus on the completeness of the solutions or the criteria for valid numbers.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of the sum of digits being equal to the base and that all individual digits must be less than the base, which complicates the search for solutions.

mathwizarddud
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For any 10 digit natural number [tex]N[/tex] in which

the first digit corresponds to the total no of 1's.
the 2nd digit corresponds to the total no of 2's.
.
.
.
the 10th digit corresponds to the total no of 0's.

determine, with proof, if the number of such natural number [tex]N[/tex] is finite, and if proved true, find them all.

A generalization of
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...lB5DIp8Cxgt.;_ylv=3?qid=20080628051813AA0p296

Also, extend this to any numerical base [tex]M[/tex] such that the [tex]M^{th}[/tex] digit corresponds to the total number of 0's and [tex](M - 1)^{th}[/tex] digit corresponds to the total number of [tex](M - 1)[/tex]'s for any natural number [tex]M[/tex], etc.
 
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The first part seems quite trivial, as the number of 10 digit natural numbers is finite, so certainly the number of such special 10 digit natural numbers is finite. The question is, how to construct them all? And are numbers like "0100000000" a valid example (because technically, this is a nine digit number).
 
I suspect the constraints are so tight that no combination will succeed (find a working example!).

This is the case for base 2, where none of the 4 possible combinations 00, 01, 10 or 11 match the requirements.

P.S.: Also, since the sum of digits must be exactly M, and all individual digits must be <M, there remain few cases to verify for bases 3 and 4, being readily visible that those bases do not work either.
 
Last edited:
And I take back the example I gave, as there should be a number in the last slot to indicate the number of zero's. In fact, I can't think of an example at all at the moment.
 
CompuChip said:
And are numbers like "0100000000" a valid example (because technically, this is a nine digit number).
Whether "0100000000" counts is a bit irrelevant in the case of base 10 because 0100000000 not a solution to the problem. It is relevant to the general problem because 0202 is a solution for base 4.
Dodo said:
I suspect the constraints are so tight that no combination will succeed (find a working example!).
2100010006 is a solution for base 10, and is the only solution for base 10. One way to reduce the complexity of the problem is to focus on the number of zeros. This can't be
  • 0 because there is at least one 0 in abcdefghi0.
  • 1, 2, or 3 because 5+6=11>10.
  • 9, 8, or 7 because there aren't enough non-zero digits left to make any of these three cases work.
  • 4 or 5. These are a bit tougher, but there cannot be 4 zeros or 5 zeros.
That leaves the case of 6 zeros. There is only one solution that works, and this is 2100010006.
 
Dodo said:
P.S.: Also, since the sum of digits must be exactly M, and all individual digits must be <M, there remain few cases to verify for bases 3 and 4, being readily visible that those bases do not work either.
There are no solutions for bases 2 and 3, but there are either one or two solutions for base 4, depending on whether numbers with leading zeros count. The two base 4 solutions are 0202 and 2101.
 
There are one or two solutions for base 4, depending on whether 0202 counts as a solution. These are the only solutions up to but not including base 7. There is a general solution for base b=7 and up: b-4 zeros, one b-4, one 2, and two 1s: 2110003, 21010004, 210010005, 2100010006, etc. Without proof, I posit that this general solution is the only solution for base 7 and up.
 
2100010006 b10
1000000008 b10
8111111110 b10

These came from the Yahoo! thread...

1o57
 
1o57 said:
2100010006 b10
1000000008 b10
8111111110 b10

These came from the Yahoo! thread...

1o57
1000000008 is not a solution. This number has one 8 in it, but has a zero as the eighth digit.

8111111110 is not a solution. This number has one 0 in it, but has a zero as the tenth digit.

2100010006 is a solution.
 
  • #10
D H said:
8111111110 is not a solution. This number has one 0 in it, but has a zero as the tenth digit.

Apart from not having a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 9.
 

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