Voltage without knowing current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between voltage and current in determining the potential danger of electrical sources. Participants explore how voltage ratings alone may not adequately convey the risk of electrical shock without knowledge of the current flowing through a person, considering various factors that influence this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how to assess the danger of voltage without knowing the corresponding current, using examples like stun guns and generators.
  • One participant suggests that any voltage should be considered "DEADLY" if the current is unknown, emphasizing the uncertainty in assessing risk.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of body resistance, proposing that knowing resistance allows for current calculation from voltage, while noting that resistance can vary based on conditions such as skin moisture.
  • It is mentioned that a current of 30mA is considered deadly, but this is contingent on various factors, including the type of current (DC vs. AC).
  • A historical reference is made regarding the debate between Edison and Westinghouse on the dangers of AC versus DC, highlighting a dramatic example involving an elephant to illustrate the perceived risks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assessment of electrical danger, with no consensus on how to relate voltage to risk without current information. Multiple competing perspectives remain regarding the implications of voltage and current in safety considerations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the variability of body resistance under different conditions and the lack of clarity on how to universally apply voltage ratings to assess danger without current data.

elimenohpee
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How do you know how much voltage is deadly without knowing the actual current? For example, a stun gun generates a 50kV with only 2 milliamps worth of current. But on the other hand, a small generator can produce 15kV of voltage. Obviously I'm going to say the generator is more deadly, but I don't actually know the current flow. Basically my question is, when reading a voltage rating, how can you really relate the total amount of energy without knowing the current?
 
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elimenohpee said:
How do you know how much voltage is deadly without knowing the actual current? For example, a stun gun generates a 50kV with only 2 milliamps worth of current. But on the other hand, a small generator can produce 15kV of voltage. Obviously I'm going to say the generator is more deadly, but I don't actually know the current flow. Basically my question is, when reading a voltage rating, how can you really relate the total amount of energy without knowing the current?

The short, safe answer, would be to consider any voltage "DEADLY" if you have no information about the current.
 
RonL said:
The short, safe answer, would be to consider any voltage "DEADLY" if you have no information about the current.
. . . because without knowing the current, you really don't know.
 
elimenohpee said:
How do you know how much voltage is deadly without knowing the actual current? For example, a stun gun generates a 50kV with only 2 milliamps worth of current. But on the other hand, a small generator can produce 15kV of voltage. Obviously I'm going to say the generator is more deadly, but I don't actually know the current flow. Basically my question is, when reading a voltage rating, how can you really relate the total amount of energy without knowing the current?

You need to look at the resistance of your body. Let's say that this is about [itex]3000 \Omega[/itex], you can calculate the current flowing for a given voltage. A current of 30mA is considered deadly, but there are more factors involved, p.e. the resistance varies in case your hands are dry or not, the fact that it is DC or AC (DC is more dangerous because it does not go through zero every 50 or 60 times a second, therefore more difficult to cut), etc.

As an example consider [itex]U=230V[/itex] and [itex]R=3000\Omega[/itex], you get about [itex]77mA[/itex], so deadly, on the other hand [itex]U=110V[/itex] with the same resistance gives about [itex]37mA[/itex], so lesser change of death, but indeed dangerous. Consider every voltage as dangerous and being carefull is the best remedy.

best regards,

coomast
 
coomast said:
DC is more dangerous because it does not go through zero every 50 or 60 times a second, therefore more difficult to cut)

In fact, Edison tried to prove otherwise! Remember the historical debate between Edison and George Westinghouse on DC versus AC ? An elephant lost it's life in the bargain when Edison electrically executed a rogue elephant with AC power to prove to the world the that AC voltages can be fatal. :wink:

regards,
Shahvir
 

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