Volume beneath a two-dimensional polynomial

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Billy70
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Polynomial Volume
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the volume beneath a two-dimensional cubic polynomial surface and above the xy-plane (z=0). Participants explore integration methods and considerations for handling potential areas where the surface may dip below the baseline, as well as the practical challenges of automating this process for multiple datasets.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Billy seeks to calculate the volume between a cubic polynomial surface and the baseline z=0, using integration over defined bounds for x and y.
  • Some participants inquire about the specific bounds of integration and how to treat areas where the surface may fall below z=0.
  • One participant suggests that if the surface does go below z=0, only the volume above this baseline should be counted, raising the need for a method to identify and exclude these areas from the integral.
  • Another participant provides a detailed expression for the double integral needed to compute the volume, but notes the complexity of handling cases where z<0.
  • There is a suggestion to evaluate the polynomial across a grid of points to check for potential dips below z=0, indicating a method to assess the situation before integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the goal of calculating the volume above the xy-plane, but there are differing views on how to handle the integration when the surface dips below z=0. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to manage these complexities.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the integration process, particularly in identifying and excluding regions where the polynomial surface is below the baseline. There are also limitations regarding the assumptions about the polynomial fit and the behavior of the surface within the defined bounds.

Billy70
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hello

Firstly apologies for what seems like an extremely fundamental question, it's been a while since I've done any calculus!

I'm currently using a program to fit data with a two dimensional 3 degree polynomial curve( which outputs the fit in the following format) with the aim of calculating the volume between the curve and the baseline:
z = a + bx + cy + d(x^2) + exy + f(y^2) + g(x^3) + h(x^2y) + i(xy^2) + j(y^3)

However I'm struggling to integrate this w.r.t. dydx within the fit range, having previously only calculated areas in this way.

An ideal solution would be to calculate the volume by inputting the constants into a script,as is possible with two dimensional Gaussians. Since there are >200 curves to analyse per dataset so integrating each fit manually will be extremely labour intensive!

Thanks in advance for any replies,
Billy
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Do you mean that you want the volume between the surface and z=0? If so, how are the bounds of the integration defined? Are there specific ranges of x and y? Can the surface go below z=0 anywhere in the range? If so, how do you want to treat that?
 
Hi haruspex,

Yes I want the volume between the surface and z=0. The bounds of the integration are manually defined e.g. 0 and 20 in x and y. Assuming a good fit, no, the surface should not go below z=0 within the range as this is below the parameters of the dataset, however if this occurs then I would only want to count the volume above z=0.

Thanks
Billy
 
If I understand this correctly you want the volume beneath [itex]z = a + bx + cy + d(x^2) + exy + f(y^2) + g(x^3) + h(x^2y) + i(xy^2) + j(y^3)[/itex], above the xy-plane, z= 0, and bounded on the sides by the planes x= 0, x= 20, y= 0, and y= 20. That is, of course,
[tex]\int_{x=0}^{20}\int_{y= 0}^{20}(a+ bx+ cy+ dx^2+ exy+ fy^2+ gx^3+ hx^2y+ jy^3)dx[/tex]
[tex]= \left[ax+ bx^2/2+ cy^2/2+ dx^3/3+ ex^2y/2+ exy^2/2+ fy^3/3+ gx^4/4+ yx^3y/3+ hx^2y^2/2+ jy^4/4\right]_{x=0, y=0}^{x=20, y=20}[/tex].
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Billy70 said:
the surface should not go below z=0 within the range as this is below the parameters of the dataset, however if this occurs then I would only want to count the volume above z=0.
To cover that eventuality, you will need to find whereabouts z<0 and remove those areas from the integral. Finding those areas is messy (solving a cubic) and skirting around them in the integral could get very difficult. Maybe you could check for whether it's likely to happen just by evaluating z across a grid of points.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K