Water drag lines - what's it called?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of water drag lines created by a stationary pebble on a beach as waves recede. Participants explore terminology and concepts related to fluid dynamics, including wakes, streamlines, and wave patterns, seeking to accurately describe the observed effects in a shallow water context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest the term "wake" to describe the lines formed by water moving over the pebble.
  • Others propose "streamlines" as a relevant concept, though there is disagreement about the accuracy of definitions provided.
  • A participant mentions the idea of a "bow wave" from a moving boat, discussing its formation and characteristics.
  • Concerns are raised about whether the term "wake" applies when the object is stationary and the water is moving, with some arguing that relative motion is key.
  • There is a discussion about the complexity of the wave patterns around the pebble, noting that multiple "Vs" with varying angles may form due to velocity gradients in shallow water.
  • One participant suggests that the asymmetry of the pebble could lead to multiple bow waves being generated.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of a "standing wave" and distinguishes it from a "stationary wave," which may be more applicable to the scenario described.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the terminology or the exact nature of the phenomenon. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain, particularly regarding the definitions of wakes, streamlines, and the characteristics of the waves observed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions and examples found online may not accurately represent the specific situation of a pebble in shallow water, highlighting limitations in existing models and the influence of water depth on wave behavior.

Iduna
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there's a stationary pebble on the flat shore of the beach. As the last of the wave heads back out to the ocean, it moves over the pebble and creates.. "lines" similar in shape to eg air stream around a jet, etc

Wondering what these 'waves' are called?
 
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Bandersnatch said:
. . . . or bow wave from a moving boat. It's a wave that's continually being formed against the water flow and it falls away on either side, traveling at its wave speed and that forms a vee. Once formed, the wave can travel a long way because there are very few losses (apart from all the other stuff going on).
 
sophiecentaur said:
. . . . or bow wave from a moving boat. It's a wave that's continually being formed against the water flow and it falls away on either side, traveling at its wave speed and that forms a vee. Once formed, the wave can travel a long way because there are very few losses (apart from all the other stuff going on).
Yes. It is also a supersonic shock wave, not quite the same thing as, say, ordinary flow over a wing.
 
Tom.G said:
Streamlines
noun
A line along which the flow of a moving fluid is least turbulent.

From: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/streamline

I don't know who Oxford hired to write the definition for a streamline, but whoever it was clearly wasn't familiar with fluid mechanics. That is not how a streamline is defined.

A streamline is a line that is everywhere tangent to the velocity field.
 
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sophiecentaur said:
. . . . or bow wave from a moving boat. It's a wave that's continually being formed against the water flow and it falls away on either side, traveling at its wave speed and that forms a vee. Once formed, the wave can travel a long way because there are very few losses (apart from all the other stuff going on).

Hmm... is it wake if the object is stationary and the water is moving around it??

Looking to name it in order to find an online model that shows the angles accurately.. in the 'wake' examples, there is usually a single 'V' with quite an acute angle, whereas with the wave and the pebble there are 2-3 'Vs' with increasingly obtuse angles...
 
Iduna said:
Hmm... is it wake if the object is stationary and the water is moving around it??
Would you expect a different answer? The motion is relative, just the same.
Multiple wakes would perhaps not be surprising as the water velocity is different at different depths in shallow water. I can't think of an equivalent to the pebble situation for a boat. You could, perhaps observe the Vee formed by a pole in deep water.
 
sophiecentaur said:
Would you expect a different answer? The motion is relative, just the same.
Multiple wakes would perhaps not be surprising as the water velocity is different at different depths in shallow water. I can't think of an equivalent to the pebble situation for a boat. You could, perhaps observe the Vee formed by a pole in deep water.

It's not that I would expect a different answer, it's that I'm looking to find online a model or illustration of the rippling effect that happens on the water surface in that exact situation - a shallow wave moving over an object on a flat surface...

When I look for 'wake', 'streamline' etc online there's some great examples, but they don't look like what happens with the pebble...
 
  • #10
A picture would help here.
 
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  • #11
Iduna said:
but they don't look like what happens with the pebble...
I have to assume that's because there is a velocity gradient in the water around the pebble and not in a simplified model of a hull moving through deep water.
Also, in shallow water, surface waves are noticeably modified and they can break.
as @mfig says, a picture (with a comparison perhaps) would help. Is it the angle of the V that is different?
 
  • #12
mfig said:
A picture would help here.

Can I post a pic from my device? I can only see the URL option...
 
  • #14
Iduna said:
Can I post a pic from my device? I can only see the URL option...
Yes, use the Upload button in the lower right corner of the Edit window to Upload a JPEG or PDF copy of your picture. :smile:
 
  • #15
boneh3ad said:
I don't know who Oxford hired to write the definition for a streamline, but whoever it was clearly wasn't familiar with fluid mechanics.
LOL :biggrin:
 
  • #16
Iduna said:
Hmm... is it wake if the object is stationary and the water is moving around it??

I don't see why not. When I'm water skiing the boat that pulls me is at rest (relative to me) and the water is in motion. As long as the speed of the boat relative to the water exceeds the speed of the water waves, I'll get bow waves. Or shock waves, or a wake, or whatever you want to call it.

Looking to name it in order to find an online model that shows the angles accurately.. in the 'wake' examples, there is usually a single 'V' with quite an acute angle, whereas with the wave and the pebble there are 2-3 'Vs' with increasingly obtuse angles...

My guess is that any asymmetry in the rock's shape causes bow waves to be created by more than one spot on the rock. I believe that if you happened to leave the ladder hanging off the stern as you sped away in your motor boat, you'd see more than one vee trailing away in the downstream wake.
 
  • #18
I think what the OP is describing might be better described as a stationary wave, which is propagating upstream at the speed of the current, rather than a standing wave, which would be oscillating in place without propagating.
 
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