Wave Generator with Crystal Quartz Oscillator?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implementation of a wave generator using a crystal quartz oscillator for cardiac pacemaking devices, specifically focusing on integrating piezoelectric energy harvesters. Participants explore circuit functionality, pulse generation, and the challenges of using a crystal oscillator in place of a function generator.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their circuit as a voltage doubler that requires a pulse of sufficient magnitude to activate a transistor, but reports receiving poor results with their current setup using a crystal oscillator.
  • Another participant questions the circuit's design and suggests using a square wave input between 1 and 100 kHz for better performance.
  • Some participants assert that the circuit works but requires time to recover between triggers, indicating a need for careful timing in pulse application.
  • A different perspective identifies the circuit as a Marx Impulse Generator, explaining its operation in terms of charging and discharging capacitors, while noting potential issues with the original prototype's trigger pulse.
  • One participant acknowledges their earlier mistakes regarding pulse frequency and the absence of a limiting resistor, indicating plans to make adjustments for further testing.
  • The original poster expresses a desire to replace a function generator with a crystal oscillator, citing space constraints and concerns about other technologies like MEMS oscillators.
  • Another participant mentions the use of low-frequency quartz crystal oscillators in devices like digital watches, highlighting their low power consumption and suitability for the application.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the circuit can work with the right adjustments, but there are multiple competing views on the best approach to implement a crystal oscillator effectively. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal integration of the crystal into the circuit.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about specific circuit parameters and configurations, and there are unresolved questions about the robustness and practicality of using crystal oscillators versus other technologies.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in circuit design for biomedical applications, particularly those focusing on energy harvesting and pulse generation in cardiac devices, may find this discussion relevant.

QuantumLollipop
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Hi All!
A little background info. I'm working with cardiac pacemaking devices with the overall scope of implementing piezoelectric energy harvesters into the devices. I'm in the initial stages of research and development.

Okay, so this is my conundrum: I have an output pulse circuit as shown on page 13 of the attached journal (Fig 11.7). Essentially, the circuit acts as a voltage doubler by supplying controlled pulses of -2Vdd to the output (heart). The circuit requires a "pulse of sufficient magnitude to place the transistor [Q1] in the conductive state" thus turning the gears of the circuit's functionality (from steady state to conductive).

Here in lies my problem. In my prototype I have used a 13.0 MHz 20 pF crystal (digikey# 887-2036-ND) as the microprocessor/pulse source and, upon initial testing, received garbage results. I was informed that I would probably need to connect a wave (square) generator to the crystal for proper functionality. I have tried testing the circuit with just the crystal, just the wave generator, and with the generator supplying waves to the crystal. Any thoughts/advice, I'm pretty stumped.

Also, I'm certain the circuit is put together correctly as I sought help from an EE PhD student and similarly found the correct voltage drops across each capacitor during the steady state. Thanks!

https://galileo.seas.harvard.edu/images/material/3794/1321/CardiacPacemakerdesign.pdf

QL
 
Last edited:
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I have looked at your circuitry and it does not make sense.
upload_2015-2-11_22-9-41.png

Here is a simulation of your circuit (I have guessed at some parameters, and repeated the "on" pulse). If you want a voltage doubler, try this circuit:
upload_2015-2-11_22-23-43.png

Feed it with a square wave of somewhere between 1 and 100 kHz. A simulation of the circuit is shown here:
upload_2015-2-11_22-30-8.png
 
The circuit does work. It needs time to recover between triggers. Attached is pacemaker_1.txt rename to .asc to run with LTspice.
Pace 1.png
 

Attachments

Baluncore said:
The circuit does work. It needs time to recover between triggers.
OK. To me it looks like an AC-coupled cascode circuit, which is basically a high frequency amplifier.
I may have gotten some of the values wrong in my simulation (it wouldn't have been the first time).
 
Svein said:
OK. To me it looks like an AC-coupled cascode circuit,
It is not really cascode because the base of Q2 is not clamped to a fixed DC potential.
I would call it a Marx Impulse Generator because it switches parallel capacitors to series connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_generator#Marx_generator

It needs a low impedance path through the body to charge and discharge the system. That is my R6 = 1k.
C1 and C2 are gradually charged to Vdd.
When Q1 turns on, C1 generates –Vdd on the emitter of Q2.
Q2 is then turned on and bootstraps C2 down to –2*Vdd.
So it is a pulse voltage doubler that operates by charging two capacitors in parallel.
When triggered it connects them in series. Hence the Marx topology.

Note: my value of R5 should be 15k, the values of R2 and R4 should have been 33k, but it makes no real difference to the simulation or function.

The problem with the OPs prototype was probably that a short positive trigger pulse was not applied to the base of Q1 through a limiting resistor each second.
 
Thank you all for the help and taking the time to test the system. You are correct in that I was pulsing at too high a frequency and have not included a limiting resistor. I will make adjustments and test it myself on Monday!

QL
 
The trigger pulse should only remain high for a short time. The long period of low between pulses is needed to recharge the capacitors for the next pulse. This is a self limiting feature of the circuit. Be aware that without a base current limiting resistor your input transistor may have died earlier.

You can download LTspice for free directly from the semiconductor manufacturers website; http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/

Let us know how you get on with testing your circuit. I expect you to ask more questions here if you have problems.
 
Sorry for the extended absence, busy with other courses and had to order a few components. Anyway, the circuit tested fine so I appreciate the help and input from everyone. The new issue is implementing into practical use. I have a few power management circuits that I'm currently looking at which, under sufficient harvesting, will provide Vdd to the circuit above which in turn will give the desired pulse to the heart. Since, in the overall scope, I'm working with very limited space I need to think conservatively and be space conscious. All in all its an autonomous system provided the mechanical vibrations to the piezoelectric harvester.

The issue at hand is to make this fully inclusive; meaning, I need to find an autonomous wave/oscillation supply, i.e. a crystal quartz properly integrated into the circuit in place of a function generator (hence the original post title). Any sort of micro-controller is out of the question as these require power and consume far to much space. I've looked into MEMS but I'm cautious and hesitant due to their lack of robustness and wide spread use. Thus, the only logical/practical/relevant choice is the crystal. The problem is I don't know how to implement this in place of the trigger while keeping the specifications I desire from a trigger. I'm looking into the problem presently and would appreciate any feedback/suggestions, thanks!

QL
 
A digital watch contains a ceramic or quartz crystal oscillator and a divider chain that produces one second pulses.
It uses very little power because it runs on very low voltage at a low frequency.
The crystal frequencies used are usually typically 32,768. Hz (=2^15) or 32,000.Hz (=2^5 * 10^3).
 
  • #10
electronique_base_temps_001.gif

This is an example of a low-frequency, low-power crystal oscillator of the type Baluncore mentioned.
 

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