Waves having energy with no mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of waves, particularly gamma rays, having energy without mass, and how this relates to Einstein's mass-energy equivalence equation, E=mc². Participants explore the implications of this relationship in the context of electromagnetic radiation and its properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of waves having energy without mass in light of Einstein's equation, suggesting that if mass is zero, then energy must also be zero.
  • Another participant introduces the mass-energy equivalence concept and presents the equation E² = (pc)² + (mc²)², indicating that photons, which are massless, can still possess energy due to their momentum.
  • Some participants clarify that gamma rays, as a form of electromagnetic radiation, have energy despite having no rest mass, emphasizing that they possess momentum.
  • One participant elaborates on the idea that while gamma radiation has no rest mass, it contributes to the overall mass of a system when contained, such as in a box with light bouncing inside, where the mass increases slightly due to the energy of the light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of mass-energy equivalence as it applies to waves, particularly gamma rays. There is no consensus on the implications of energy without mass, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on different interpretations of mass-energy equivalence and the properties of electromagnetic radiation, leading to various assumptions about the nature of energy and mass in the context of waves.

Scimaster
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Waves have energy without mass which can't be true in Einstein's equation
E=mc2
If you work out that E=0 (mass of waves) times 300,000 c2
then its zero.

Please can someone tell me why waves can have energy but without mass which in einstein's equation cannot be right.

Thank you

Scimaster
 
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Scimaster said:
Waves have energy without mass which can't be true in Einstein's equation
E=mc2
The proper equation is
$$
E^2 = (p c)^2 + (m c^2)^2
$$

I guess that when you talk about "waves without mass," you mean light (photons). Photons have momentum, ##p^2 >0 ##, so ##E^2 > 0##.
 
I was talking about Gamma rays where they have energy without mass
 
Scimaster said:
I was talking about Gamma rays where they have energy without mass
It's electromagnetic radiation, so my reply stands. Gamma ray photons have momentum, thus energy.
 
Scimaster said:
I was talking about Gamma rays where they have energy without mass

Gamma radiation, like all electromagnetic radiation, has energy and no rest mass - but it's not at rest. If you were to take a box with a perfectly mirrored interior, so that light would bounce back and forth inside... Its mass will be very slightly greater if there is light bouncing back and forth inside than if there were not. As the light is absorbed its energy will be absorbed into the walls of the box as heat, and the mass of the box will not change bevause there's still the same amount of energy in the box.
 

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