What Are the Secrets Behind How EM Waves Travel Across the Globe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature and propagation of electromagnetic (EM) waves, particularly in the context of radio waves traveling long distances. Participants explore the composition of EM waves, how they propagate from antennas, and the factors influencing their reception across the globe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether EM waves are composed of electrons and seeks clarification on how they travel through the air.
  • Another participant clarifies that EM waves consist of time-varying electric and magnetic fields, referencing Maxwell's equations as foundational to understanding them.
  • There is a discussion about the propagation of radio waves, with some suggesting they travel in straight lines but are affected by refraction and reflection, particularly around the Earth's surface.
  • An engineer mentions that the full structure of EM waves is not completely understood and relates it to quantum mechanics, suggesting that the type of antenna and frequency also play significant roles in propagation.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the composition of EM waves and their ability to be picked up globally, speculating on their propagation and dissipation characteristics.
  • Another participant shares their intuitive understanding of antennas and EM field oscillation, while also discussing the importance of signal-to-noise ratio in long-distance transmission.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of EM waves and their propagation, with no consensus reached on the underlying mechanisms or the specifics of how radio waves travel globally. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the participants' varying levels of understanding of quantum mechanics and electromagnetic theory, as well as the complexity of the factors influencing radio wave propagation, such as antenna design and environmental conditions.

Mr_Bojingles
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Sorry if its a simple question but I was wondering what EM waves are composed of. Is it like an electron beam traveling through the air and the magnetic field a consequence of the moving electrons?

Another thing that's been really confusing me and no matter how many radio circuit tutorials I look at I can't find the answer to this question. How do the EM waves travel? Let's say I broadcast radio waves of a specific frequency from Portugal and I need a radio station in New Zealand to receive my radio waves. The electrons leave the antenna and enter the air. From what I gather they start off in a straight line then spread out as they get further away from the antenna. Where do they go before the antenna in New Zealand receives them? What if I need one radio station in New Zealand and another one in Venezuela?

Do these radio signals enter the atmosphere or what? In that case are long distance radio waves scattered all over to every single part of the world?
 
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EM waves are not composed of electrons. They are just time-varying electric and magnetic fields which cause induction of each other, and thus propagate. Maxwell's equations are the best starting point to understanding EM waves -- and can be found in many textbooks.
 
Thanks a lot. I'll look up Maxwells equations.
 
Mr_Bojingles said:
Lets say I broadcast radio waves of a specific frequency from Portugal and I need a radio station in New Zealand to receive my radio waves. The electrons leave the antenna and enter the air. From what I gather they start off in a straight line then spread out as they get further away from the antenna. Where do they go before the antenna in New Zealand receives them?

They would go in straight lines in empty space, but there are several effects that make them propagate round the surface of the Earth because of refraction and/or reflection.

Google for "radio propagation", "ground waves", "sky waves", "ionosphere".
 
As an Engineer, and I'm assuming your are one since you asked your question in the engineering section not in the physics one, there is a very simple answer to your question we don't know and we don't care, see the structure of EM waves can not be explained to us fully because we don't have the essential background neither in quantum mechanics nor in quantum filed theory, the best I've reached to modelling EM waves was to think of them consisting of a photon-like particles such as light which is an EM wave itself.

As far as your second question, it depends on the type of the antenna the length of the antenna, the frequency of broadcasting and many other conditions.

Also I find it worth mentioning that most of the time the "Look" of the EM wave itself is irrelevant mostly it is the power that it carries is the important factor which would normally look something like a spear, sphere, donut...etc.
 
Thanks for the answers. No I'm not an engineer abdo. Not yet anyway. I'm trying to get myself a base understanding of electronic theory before I get into the simpler practical applications of electronics.

I knew the studying the composition of EM waves goes into quantum physics but I thought there was a scientific model for explaining what exactly makes up the different frequencies of EM waves. I suppose you'd have to find out what electrical energy and magnetic energy is composed of first.

Thats how I pictured EM waves travelling. Spreading out from the antenna in the shape of a donut. What was confusing me is the fact that if the signal is powerful enough it can be picked up by radio stations anywhere in the world which makes me suspect the waves are propagated and spread out to every part of the globe.

Radio waves must dissipate quickly since the same signals aren't picked up over and over again.
 
Mr_Bojingles said:
Thats how I pictured EM waves travelling. Spreading out from the antenna in the shape of a donut. What was confusing me is the fact that if the signal is powerful enough it can be picked up by radio stations anywhere in the world which makes me suspect the waves are propagated and spread out to every part of the globe.

Radio waves must dissipate quickly since the same signals aren't picked up over and over again.

If you haven't already done it, please do some reading at wikipedia.org or arrl.org about antennas and radiation patterns -- I think you will enjoy the info. To be honest, I've never gotten comfortable with the self-sustaining magnetic/electric field oscillation thing for EM waves, but I do know from every-day experience that they do work and do exist, so fine. I do have an intuitive feel for how most antennas create an oscillating E&M field in the near field, based on the antenna textbooks that I've studied.

And for the distance transmission portion of your question (DX = distance transmission in HAM terms), you will always have a channel budget to consider -- receivers are not infinitely sensitive, and your receiver's bandpass filtering and low-noise RX amp will limit how small of a signal you can detect. The signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) of the channel and electronics will determine how far you can go (i.e., how much attenuation you can tolerate).
 

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