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MTW Gravitation is a standard text. For someone learning from this text, what advances since 1973 should he be aware of? Are there any actual corrections: instances of something accepted in 1973 but now known to be wrong?
Hmmm, I am buying this book. Thanks guys.Thanks, bcrowell.
Overwhelmingly dense... *drools*. :!!)As a person who has been self studying from MTW I can tell you that it can be a bit overwhelming at first. There is almost too much information to deal with. It helped me to get a couple different texts to suppliment it...Wald was useful.
Well, for a mental break try "The Strangest Man", by Graham Farmelo, which is a fantastic biography of the man Dirac. It's my favourite next to "Prime Obsession". I'm going to take your advice and when I start to feel the old skull creaking, I'll look for Wald and other sources. Thanks!lol.... MTW is a great book stuffed with lots of information, but I get the feeling I could spend years trying to learn about everything in there and follow through meticulously. Supporting texts like Wald have helped a lot. I also found an old short book by Dirac that summarizes a lot of basic ideas and formulas.
IMO the problem with Wald is the almost complete lack of contact with experiment. He also does a poor job of explaining the meaning of the mathematics. If you want mathematical elegance, it's a good book. For someone who wants to learn the subject for the first time, I'd suggest either Carroll or an undergrad book like Rindler or Hartle. There are a bunch of books (including a partial version of Carroll) that are free online: http://www.theassayer.org/cgi-bin/asbrowsesubject.cgi?class=Q#freeclassQCAs a person who has been self studying from MTW I can tell you that it can be a bit overwhelming at first. There is almost too much information to deal with. It helped me to get a couple different texts to suppliment it...Wald was useful.
I think these are valid reasons to complain if you aren't intending to go on and do research in GR. If you are intending to do research in GR, then the advantage of the book is that it exposes you to all these things you need to be exposed to.I'm not much of a fan of MTW. I think their writing style makes everything seem much harder than it really is. The entire book could be compressed to a third of the size, if they would just stick to simple, straightforward explanations rather than droning on in their particular dramatization of differential geometry.
Their notation leaves a lot to be desired, too. They use too many different fonts in their formulas, to represent different mathematical objects. In my opinion a printed formula should not use typographical distinctions that cannot be reproduced in handwriting.
I don't agree. The fabulous masterpiece is aggressively meditative.Overwhelmingly dense... *drools*. :!!)
I don't agree. The fabulous masterpiece is aggressively meditative.
I strongly agree! They treat GR like it is something written under the influence of QM with all those complicated and twisted notations which look more alike a difficult matheamtical guide for GR than a book that provides reader with the usual litrature of GR! For instance, D'inverno, Weinberg and Hobbson use a quite simple style to express things and are more helpful than MTW just because the latter uses unnecessary explanations and prolongated proofs\derivations which if were neglected, the book would end at page 500!I'm not much of a fan of MTW. I think their writing style makes everything seem much harder than it really is.
Hey man, think of quality, not density!Overwhelmingly dense... *drools*. :!!)
You have to understand, to me, this whole thread is just a massive list of reading I MUST do. MTW, what you've mentioned, and others. I couldn't be happier if Aphrodite was tickling me.Hey man, think of quality, not density!
AB
Ok, now I have the book in my hands, and have for a day. I can see where the criticism and love the both come from. It's a GREAT reference book, and the exercises for self-study are pretty rewarding. On the other hand, it is pedantic, and long, but INCREDIBLY informative. I also enjoy the linguistic patterns, but that's a preference issue. I live near a wonderful library, so when it comes to the smaller (either in terms of size or time required) books I don't need to buy them. Gravitation, like some medical references I have, its anachronism offends some, and attracts others.I strongly agree! They treat GR like it is something written under the influence of QM with all those complicated and twisted notations which look more alike a difficult matheamtical guide for GR than a book that provides reader with the usual litrature of GR! For instance, D'inverno, Weinberg and Hobbson use a quite simple style to express things and are more helpful than MTW just because the latter uses unnecessary explanations and prolongated proofs\derivations which if were neglected, the book would end at page 500!
There are lots of thin books that can be more fruitful than MTW for an interested reader. If you are after a preliminary book in the context, go with D'inverno, Hartle, Ohanian or Schutz. If you are looking for something much harder and up-to-date, try Weinberg, Witten's Gravitation: an introduction to current research or Poisson's a relativistic toolkit.
Leave MTW alone if you're not so patient in learning GR.
AB
I'd love to call it "a matter of taste" and it all falls upon onself to whether enjoy it or hate it! Some pepole are so much overcautious as they even nag about which font the text is typed with or what size the fonts used in the book are. Believe me or not this is something my eyes have witnessed so many times in the library I used to go to.That said, as you say Altabeh, it's clearly not an introductory text, and I won't treat it as such. I have a copy of Poisson's: A Relativistic Toolkit, but I feel MTW can help me expand my understanding of the math, where I am weakest.
All too recently, and too long.Anyways, did you begin to study MTW and how much time does it take for you to finish each page with a full understanding of the points in the end?
AB