What can be done with old computer equipment?

[Tom McCurdy]

The math and science center I attend is cleaning shop and finally getting rid of the old computers that were laying around. There are tons of monitors and computers both mac/pc none faster than Pentium 2. Most of it is junk by itself but they all work. I need some ideas of what to do with all of this computer equipment. Right now I am leaning towards selling individual componets on ebay in hopes of making a couple hundred dollars. However I would rather use the computers somehow. I took one of the better ones that was our old server and am making a server out of it, but I still have tons of old computers/monitors/acessories. Its funny going back and seeing stuff such as Locus 1-2-3. I was thinking maybe a beowulf cluster but I mean 20 computers times 100 mhz equals less than my desktop. But it would still be fun to do. Well if you have any ideas let me know.

 

[dduardo]

How about setting up a linux beowulf cluster that will drive an array of monitors to watch television on. You can also have the boxes act as a pvr. Now that would be cool.

It would look something like this:

http://yara.ecn.purdue.edu/~pplinux/Sites/piifront.gif

 

[LogiX]

Indeed. I work for the Computer Center at my university and we're in the middle of trashing and giving away a **** load of computer equipment (mostly P3s and P2s, about 5 Mac G3s and a crap load of moniters).

Oddly enough, the RAM in those things are probably the most valueable (not so much the case since they're used). PC100 and PC133 RAM is pretty expensive.

They should be powerful enough to run some Linux flavors and BSD, maybe some old skool ms-dos. So it would be possible to set up a beowulf clustor.

You could always give them away to some poor church or school nearby.

Ryan

 

[The_Professional]

How about setting up a linux beowulf cluster that will drive an array of monitors to watch television on. You can also have the boxes act as a pvr. Now that would be cool.

It would look something like this:

http://yara.ecn.purdue.edu/~pplinux/Sites/piifront.gif

The idea of watching one show on a dozen monitors made me laugh..but still is pretty neat.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

hmm well I have the actual specs... I will upload the picture of some of teh computers tomorrow. I also decided to sell one in a computer shop for 80 dollars. (get 40 on consignment) anyway how much work would it be to set up a beowulf cluster

 

[dduardo]

Here are the gentoo howtos for a linux cluster:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/cluster/

You'll probable want to read:

High-Performance HOWTO and openMosix HOWTO

 

[philocrazy]

the best experiment you could make with them is setup w95 LAN and when
you realize that there are new faster machines and have learned a bit win networking
give them away for free to a friend to get a similar experience or a friend in electronics who might like to salvage componetry from them

 

[graphic7]

the best experiment you could make with them is setup w95 LAN and when
you realize that there are new faster machines and have learned a bit win networking
give them away for free to a friend to get a similar experience or a friend in electronics who might like to salvage componetry from them

Why in the world would you want to learn Windows networking? I mean what is there to it? Active Directory, files shares, printer shares, etc. all can be done with Samba and LDAP on Linux/BSD/UNIX systems.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

yeah its hard to run a windows cluster with macs

 

[philocrazy]

Linux/Unix is just networking
windows is more than that is the biggest network on the planet
and is simpler to use and a whole lot more
------------------------------
Why in the world would you want to learn Windows networking? I mean what is there to it? Active Directory, files shares, printer shares, etc. all can be done with Samba and LDAP on Linux/BSD/UNIX systems.
-----------------------------
you like linux/unix and you like to say so
and i say windows isn't there to like but use

 

[graphic7]

Linux/Unix is just networking
windows is more than that is the biggest network on the planet
and is simpler to use and a whole lot more
------------------------------
Why in the world would you want to learn Windows networking? I mean what is there to it? Active Directory, files shares, printer shares, etc. all can be done with Samba and LDAP on Linux/BSD/UNIX systems.
-----------------------------
you like linux/unix and you like to say so
and i say windows isn't there to like but use

Perhaps you'd care to clue me in, but that made absolutely no sense. You say Windows is more than networking, yet you state that someone should use it because it's the `biggest network.' That's kind of circular don't you think? And to support your point that `networking is a good thing,' you stated 'Linux/UNIX is just networking.' That doesn't exactly support your stance does it?

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Anyway How long would it take for a complete newb to create a linux network using 9 power computing macs

 

[Tom McCurdy]

You can see the computers I have in my latest vid blog
www.quantumninja.com/tom/movies/bjan31-1.wmv

its the stack of 10 macs lol

they all run os 8 and are 200 mhzish

 

[gazzo]

Anyway How long would it take for a complete newb to create a linux network using 9 power computing macs

... 5 minutes.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Sorry not network... beowulf cluster ... like the picture lol

 

[Wardw]

Anybody thought of donating them to one of the organizations that send them to developing countries. I'm an Australian living in Brazil and public schools here would kill for some of that "old stuff". I don't know the names of these organizations but I know they are out there, food for thought...?

 

[franznietzsche]

Linux/Unix is just networking
windows is more than that is the biggest network on the planet
and is simpler to use and a whole lot more
------------------------------
Why in the world would you want to learn Windows networking? I mean what is there to it? Active Directory, files shares, printer shares, etc. all can be done with Samba and LDAP on Linux/BSD/UNIX systems.
-----------------------------
you like linux/unix and you like to say so
and i say windows isn't there to like but use

I will burn your ISP.

Not really, but its a fair threat for that kind of comment.

Windows is not easier. Its a load of bloated crap that i don't need that just gets in my way. The only thing i can't do on linux that i can is play HL2, and Rome. Thats the only reason i keep windows around. EVERYTHING else worth doing, can be done on linux. Easier, faster, and better.

And linux is not just for networking, its for people that need an OS that can actually perform.

 

[franznietzsche]

You can see the computers I have in my latest vid blog
www.quantumninja.com/tom/movies/bjan31-1.wmv

its the stack of 10 macs lol

they all run os 8 and are 200 mhzish

I'd take em off your hands, i need all the extra CPU cycles i can get my hands on currently.

We still have a few of those lying around in lower division lab classes, with the evil one button mouse. Evil.

 

[graphic7]

I will burn your ISP.

Not really, but its a fair threat for that kind of comment.

Windows is not easier. Its a load of bloated crap that i don't need that just gets in my way. The only thing i can't do on linux that i can is play HL2, and Rome. Thats the only reason i keep windows around. EVERYTHING else worth doing, can be done on linux. Easier, faster, and better.

And linux is not just for networking, its for people that need an OS that can actually perform.

Don't be so closed-minded. Yes, Samba, OpenLDAP, etc. can run on Linux, all of which are better implementations than their Microsoft counterparts. With this said, there's also better implementations of most of the services available for Linux. NFS on any propiertary UNIX, will blow the Linux implementation out of the water. Ever used Sun One's LDAP server? Psst, it doesn't even compare to OpenLDAP. Regardless, almost all of the apps that build in Linux will also build in Solaris or AIX, and even perform better (NFS and Samba being the emphasis).

As far as being able to do something `easier,' Linux is quite behind. Ever used AIX's smit (or smitty)? Almost every system task can be done through the slick curses-style interface, and it'll let you even see the command that it's going to run to complete the task. Therefore, next time you want to do the task yourself, you'll know how to. Solaris has something equally similar called SMC (Sun Management Console), which is very similar to MMC (Microsoft Management Console) found in Windows. SMC will let you remotely administer systems just like SMC, however, it's not quite as capable as smit is at the moment. I have yet to find a Linux utility with as much power as smit or SMC, and even Microsoft has a tool that provides easier `administration' than that of most Linux distributions (SuSE's YaST being the exception).

If you're not confined to the computer's in your bedroom and are part of a real IT department, you're going to be using a real propiertary UNIX, like Solaris and AIX for services that you want to `really perform' and can `easily administer.'

Edit: Solaris will no longer be propiertary in the upcoming months. OpenSolaris will be released under the CDDL license, which is very similar to the Mozilla (Firefox) license. In fact, Solaris is free at the moment, however, the source code is not - OpenSolaris will fix this.

I do not mean to emphasize that only those in an IT department or production environment have a need for Solaris. I'm running a Solaris network at home, myself. A few propiertary Sun systems, yes, however the bulk of the network is Solaris 9 & 10 for x86. All of which serve for great workstations and servers, alike.

 

[dduardo]

The only thing i can't do on linux that i can is play HL2, and Rome.

You can play HL2 on Linux:

Check out the screenshot:

http://www.linux-gamers.net/uploads/img41b714d07fb71.jpg

The only thing you need is a copy of HL2 and TransGaming's Cedega 4.2.1

http://www.transgaming.com/

 

[franznietzsche]

Don't be so closed-minded. Yes, Samba, OpenLDAP, etc. can run on Linux, all of which are better implementations than their Microsoft counterparts. With this said, there's also better implementations of most of the services available for Linux. NFS on any propiertary UNIX, will blow the Linux implementation out of the water. Ever used Sun One's LDAP server? Psst, it doesn't even compare to OpenLDAP. Regardless, almost all of the apps that build in Linux will also build in Solaris or AIX, and even perform better (NFS and Samba being the emphasis).

As far as being able to do something `easier,' Linux is quite behind. Ever used AIX's smit (or smitty)? Almost every system task can be done through the slick curses-style interface, and it'll let you even see the command that it's going to run to complete the task. Therefore, next time you want to do the task yourself, you'll know how to. Solaris has something equally similar called SMC (Sun Management Console), which is very similar to MMC (Microsoft Management Console) found in Windows. SMC will let you remotely administer systems just like SMC, however, it's not quite as capable as smit is at the moment. I have yet to find a Linux utility with as much power as smit or SMC, and even Microsoft has a tool that provides easier `administration' than that of most Linux distributions (SuSE's YaST being the exception).

If you're not confined to the computer's in your bedroom and are part of a real IT department, you're going to be using a real propiertary UNIX, like Solaris and AIX for services that you want to `really perform' and can `easily administer.'

Edit: Solaris will no longer be propiertary in the upcoming months. OpenSolaris will be released under the CDDL license, which is very similar to the Mozilla (Firefox) license. In fact, Solaris is free at the moment, however, the source code is not - OpenSolaris will fix this.

I do not mean to emphasize that only those in an IT department or production environment have a need for Solaris. I'm running a Solaris network at home, myself. A few propiertary Sun systems, yes, however the bulk of the network is Solaris 9 & 10 for x86. All of which serve for great workstations and servers, alike.

I was attacking windows, not boasting linux. Personally I'm now running fedora but plan on switching to FreeBSD. Nothing you said disagreed with what i meant (ok so i suck at wording my sentences when i ahven't slept in a day or two).

My point was that his comment about *nix only being good for networking and that windows was superior otherwise is a crock.

 

[franznietzsche]

You can play HL2 on Linux:

Check out the screenshot:

http://www.linux-gamers.net/uploads/img41b714d07fb71.jpg

The only thing you need is a copy of HL2 and TransGaming's Cedega 4.2.1

http://www.transgaming.com/

Yay, one less reason for windows. This is good.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

well its time to decide

a. Sell them on ebay
so far 12 computers
9 VGA working montiors with 15-17" range

b. beowulf cluster

c.? any ideas

 

[dduardo]

Sell it and buy a good computer. If you sell all 9 monitors at $35 and the ram from those 12 computers at $20 you could be looking at nearly $600 which is good enough to get you a pretty darn good computer, assuming you build it yourself.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

What would be the best medium to sell it from.
So take the ram out of the macs

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Here is a movie of some of the componets I have ... very small clip file size

www.quantumninja.com/tom/movies/IM000812-1.wmv
and here is a good pic of the computers that I got (well 8/12)
www.quantumninja.com/tom/movies/stack.JPG

 

[Tom McCurdy]

So it would be better to sell the RAM separate from the computers?

 

[dduardo]

It is going to be hard for you to find someone to buy an old whole system nowadays. It is better to just strip the pieces and sell them individually.

Checkout ebay to see how to price your goods.

 

[franznietzsche]

It is going to be hard for you to find someone to buy an old whole system nowadays. It is better to just strip the pieces and sell them individually.

Checkout ebay to see how to price your goods.

i would. twelve times 200 mhz gives me an extra 2.4 ghz. Very useful because it would give me a dedicated system for my work. Unfortunately, straving student, i don't have $600, and i doubt I'm going to be able to convince the uni to cover it.

 

[philocrazy]

franznietzsche


Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cow Poly
Posts: 653
Read my Journal Quote:
Originally Posted by philocrazy
Linux/Unix is just networking
windows is more than that is the biggest network on the planet
and is simpler to use and a whole lot more
------------------------------
Why in the world would you want to learn Windows networking? I mean what is there to it? Active Directory, files shares, printer shares, etc. all can be done with Samba and LDAP on Linux/BSD/UNIX systems.
-----------------------------
you like linux/unix and you like to say so
and i say windows isn't there to like but use



I will burn your ISP.

Not really, but its a fair threat for that kind of comment.

Windows is not easier. Its a load of bloated crap that i don't need that just gets in my way. The only thing i can't do on linux that i can is play HL2, and Rome. Thats the only reason i keep windows around. EVERYTHING else worth doing, can be done on linux. Easier, faster, and better.

And linux is not just for networking, its for people that need an OS that can actually perform.
-------------------------------------------------
if it works better than windows or apple, why not
by the way my isp, do me a favor, do what you like with them

 

[philocrazy]

franznietzsche

i would. twelve times 200 mhz gives me an extra 2.4 ghz. Very useful because it would give me a dedicated system for my work. Unfortunately, straving student, i don't have $600, and i doubt I'm going to be able to convince the uni to cover it.

-------------------------------------
buy them! and youll still get 200mhz not to mention the old buses that run at hot
speeds ,franznietzsche you can find more machines of such speeds to add up to greater speeds say 300ghz
guys the linux guru franznietzsche

 

[dduardo]

You can't just do 12 times 200Mhz. There are things like overhead which will reduce the maximum speed achievable. You'll be lucky to get 1.2ghz from all twelve computers.

 

[franznietzsche]

buy them! and youll still get 200mhz not to mention the old buses that run at hot
speeds ,franznietzsche you can find more machines of such speeds to add up to greater speeds say 300ghz
guys the linux guru franznietzsche

I sense ridicule, coming from someone who doesn't know how to use quote tags.

You can't just do 12 times 200Mhz. There are things like overhead which will reduce the maximum speed achievable. You'll be lucky to get 1.2ghz from all twelve computers.

I will admit my own ignoarance in hardware setups. What specifically would be limiting the number of cycles you could get?

 

[dduardo]

Some of the factors that cause overhead:

1. The speed of the network.

In a non-clustered configuration a single computer a stick of PC100 can be read by the cpu at 800MB/s. With PC133 it is 1GB/s. Therefore, if you using a 100baseT network your bottlenecking the speed at which one cpu can get data from other node on the cluster. This is why high end clusters use fiber optic.

2. The software managing the sharing of the load.

Managing data over multiple nodes is very complicated. You need to keep track of all the processes going on at all times. Syncing processes/memory is one of the major design issues encoutered when writing clustering management software. If not designed properly, you'll get terrible performance.

3. The program you want to run.

Not all programs can be split. Depending on how the software was programmed will dictate how well the process can be split.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

I am getting lost in the discussion are people debating on whether or not a 12 Power Computing mac beowulf cluster would be worth setting up?

 

[franznietzsche]

I am getting lost in the discussion are people debating on whether or not a 12 Power Computing mac beowulf cluster would be worth setting up?

Philocrazy might, but I'm just asking about clusters in general.

 

[dduardo]

Basically, if all you're after is learning how clustering works then go for it. If you're after performance, don't even bother.

 

[Wardw]

Who is paying for all the electrons needed to power this daughter of Frankenstein??
:-)

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Hehehe Mom and Dad

 

[franznietzsche]

Hehehe Mom and Dad

always good.

I just got another hard drive so that i can add two more operating systems to my computer, which they were kind enough to cover for me.

 

[FulhamFan3]

I think it's more work than it's worth to make a cluster with that unless it's simply to learn how clusters work. However 2 other uses comes to mind.

1.) If the hard drives are still useful you can set them up as file servers.

2.) Since one of the most popular games in the world was made for a machine of those specs you can make a big Starcraft LAN and invite your buddies.

 

[franznietzsche]

2.) Since one of the most popular games in the world was made for a machine of those specs you can make a big Starcraft LAN and invite your buddies.

*shakes head*

People still play starcraft?

Its not that good a game, its really not.

 

[FulhamFan3]

*shakes head*

People still play starcraft?

Its not that good a game, its really not.

Go to south korea and try to find someone that doesn't play starcraft. Is it really starcraft you don't like or the strategy game genre in general?

 

[franznietzsche]

Go to south korea and try to find someone that doesn't play starcraft. Is it really starcraft you don't like or the strategy game genre in general?

I don't consider starcraft strategy, its all simply micromanagement.

I love strategy games, real strategy games anyway. I'm a serious Total war addict for one. Any game in the starcraft engine (including the age of ------ series) is not really strategy though. Or at most, its unrealistic strategy. I like the total war games that really allow for some strategic innovation in battlefield tactics (well, not everyone innovates, but its possible at least).

 

[Tom McCurdy]

I think it's more work than it's worth to make a cluster with that unless it's simply to learn how clusters work. However 2 other uses comes to mind.

1.) If the hard drives are still useful you can set them up as file servers.

2.) Since one of the most popular games in the world was made for a machine of those specs you can make a big Starcraft LAN and invite your buddies.

Would it be worth all that effort for a whole bunch of 2 gig hard drives

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Also if I were to sell the computers would I be able to make more money if I took off all the old mac OS and loaded say gentoo onto them all?

 

[dduardo]

hahahaha. You expect to compile gentoo on those old machines. You'll be luckly if you can finish by the end of next year.

personally, I don't think you'll get much for the complete system. Your better off selling the components individually.

 

[Christophe]

hahahaha. You expect to compile gentoo on those old machines. You'll be luckly if you can finish by the end of next year.

personally, I don't think you'll get much for the complete system. Your better off selling the components individually.

How can you compile gentoo ?

-Christophe Messiana

 

[dduardo]

Gentoo is a source based distribution. You compile the whole system optimized to your processor and specific needs. To learn more read the gentoo handbook:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml

 

[Pfft]

If you had a large number of microprocessors in series and a large number of identical problems, you could build a system to step the problems through with a gain in processing time. For example if a single data set can be run through a single processor in ten seconds, break the problem into ten sections each requiring one second in a dedicated processor. To run one set through the series of ten processors still requires ten seconds, but if you keep feeding data in, pretty soon you will be getting answers output every one second.

The FAA developed such a system with the assistance of MIT back in the 1980s using about twenty series connected microprocessors to predict air traffic. The goal was to schedule takeoff times so that the aircraft did not have to orbit around their destination waiting for a opening to land. It was called the Enhanced Traffic Management System (ETMS).

Parallel connected microprocessors are more limited in utility unless you are dealing with irrational numbers a thousand digits long. Modern ciphers use non-repeating series of numbers such as pi to encrypt messages. Since the cipher cracker does not know which irrational number has been used and what portion of the numerical sequence to use, a square matrix of processors would be useful. The X-axis could step the numerical series through while the Y-axis could step the message through and look for repetitive sequences.