What causes unhinged objects to rotate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of rotation in unhinged objects, particularly focusing on why objects rotate around their center of mass when a force is applied. Participants explore concepts related to torque, angular momentum, and the implications of applying force at different points on the object.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that when a force is applied at a point not passing through the center of mass, it generates torque, causing the object to rotate.
  • Others argue that the center of mass is a convenient reference point for analyzing motion because it simplifies the description of translation and rotation.
  • There is a discussion about how applying force at the center of mass leads to linear motion without rotation, while applying force elsewhere introduces torque and can cause rotation.
  • Some participants question how angular momentum changes when force is applied at the center of mass, suggesting that this should also imply the presence of torque.
  • One participant mentions that a couple is formed when force is applied away from the center of mass, necessitating an analysis of the resulting linear and rotational motion.
  • There are requests for clarification on the relationship between applied force, torque, and angular momentum in various scenarios.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the mechanics of rotation and the role of the center of mass. The discussion remains unresolved, with ongoing questions and clarifications sought by various participants.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of analyzing motion when different reference points are chosen, and the implications of applying forces at various locations on the object. There is an acknowledgment of the need to consider both linear and rotational dynamics in these scenarios.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and enthusiasts of physics, particularly those exploring concepts of mechanics, rotation, and the behavior of rigid bodies under applied forces.

  • #31
Hemant said:
I can't understand how couple can be formed, doesn't all internal forces cancel out and only external force acts.

You are correct, it is the external force which determines the angular acceleration as well as the translational acceleration of the configuration, all internal forces cancel pairwise.

In addition to this, if you work in an accelerating frame of reference (for instance the centre of mass frame), you must also include external fictitious forces in your analysis (specifically, assuming the frame is non-rotating, a fictitious body force ##-m\vec{a}## that acts through the centre of mass). Since the centre of mass has zero acceleration in the centre of mass frame, we can determine that an additional fictitious force ##-\vec{F}## will act through the centre of mass in this accelerating frame. But this is not a reaction force, it is a different beast entirely!
 
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  • #32
Hemant said:
Now only question left is why object rotates when force is applied?
I thought I'd posted that already in #26. It is a requirement based on torque and angular momentum conservation.

To say it with pompous verbosity...

Given the constraints on the motion of the myriad bits of pancake-stuff imposed by the rigidity of the pancake, the motion of the pancake can be completely characterized by a linear translation rate of the center of mass and a rotation rate of the bits as they orbit that center in lock-step.

Given the magnitude, direction and application point of an external impulse on a pancake that is initially at rest, there is exactly one possible linear motion and exactly one possible rotation rate that can result.

We have calculated said rates and determined that an on-the-center force results in no rotation.

[For simplicity, we have restricted our attention to two dimensions and rotation in the plane]
 
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  • #33
Hemant said:
Sir I can't understand how couple can be formed, doesn't all internal forces cancel out and only external force acts.
Do you really doubt that the object will spin? I'd recommend starting with the fact that it does and then try to explain it by finding whatever flaw there is in your understanding of the situation.
Can you really believe that only one of the balls will move or that the other one will magically move in a straight line parallel to the struck ball? Try it on a flat surface with two masses joined with string.
 
  • #34
jbriggs444 said:
To say it with pompous verbosity...
I like your style, young man.
 
  • #35
jbriggs444 said:
You need to do some serious work to clarify what you are talking about here. As written it is false, false, false.
Hah, I fear you may be right there. And with no verbosity, either.
 
  • #36
jbriggs444 said:
I thought I'd posted that already in #26. It is a requirement based on torque and angular momentum conservation.
jbriggs444 said:
I thought I'd posted that already in #26. It is a requirement based on torque and angular momentum conservation.

To say it with pompous verbosity...

Given the constraints on the motion of the myriad bits of pancake-stuff imposed by the rigidity of the pancake, the motion of the pancake can be completely characterized by a linear translation rate of the center of mass and a rotation rate of the bits as they orbit that center in lock-step.

Given the magnitude, direction and application point of an external impulse on a pancake that is initially at rest, there is exactly one possible linear motion and exactly one possible rotation rate that can result.

We have calculated said rates and determined that an on-the-center force results in no rotation.

[For simplicity, we have restricted our attention to two dimensions and rotation in the plane]
Thanks,
I got it!
If we take granted that angular momentum is always conserved then it makes a lot of sense.
 

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