What Determines the Maximal Elongation of a Spring in a Pulley System?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a pulley system with two bricks connected by a spring and a rope. The scenario describes the dynamics of the system when one brick is released, leading to questions about the maximal elongation of the spring and the time it takes to reach that elongation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the relationship between the spring's elongation and the forces acting on the bricks, particularly questioning the derivation of the amplitude of motion.
  • Some participants suggest simplifying the problem by considering the system in a non-inertial frame and merging the two blocks into a single mass to analyze the forces more easily.
  • There is a discussion about the acceleration of the blocks and how it relates to the elongation of the spring, with participants exploring the implications of the spring's initial conditions.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering alternative approaches and clarifying concepts related to the forces and motions involved. There is a productive exchange regarding the derivation of specific parameters, though no consensus has been reached on the overall solution.

Contextual Notes

The problem is constrained by the idealized conditions of the spring and the assumption of a smooth horizontal surface, which may influence the dynamics being discussed. The original poster also notes a language barrier with part of the information being in Russian, which could affect the clarity of the problem context.

snate
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Homework Statement


2 bricks of mass m are located near the edge of a smooth horizontal surface, they are connected by an ideal weightless ,unstretched spring with a length of l0 and spring constant k. The brick which is closer to the edge is connected to another brick of the same mass by an ideal unstretchable rope going through a pulley. The lowest brick is held so that the rope above it hangs vertically.
The lowest brick is released
What's the minimal time τ after which the elongation of the spring ΔL will be maximal. Find ΔL.

20645861_1928917583989680_1368339303_n.png
20631554_1928917840656321_1206854442_n.png

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Here's the solution until the point where I'm stuck. Sorry for the Russian text, it does not contain crucial information, please ignore it
20632389_1928930010655104_1002110814_n.png

a2-a1 is the acceleration of one end of the spring from the frame of reference of another end.
Then these equations are given (y is vertical coordinate)
20631623_1928927060655399_1063382409_n.png

I understand why w2 is 3k/2m but why is the amplitude(A0) mg/3k? Can someone please explain? I only need an explanation for A0
The next equations are
20631814_1928927260655379_432063850_n.png

20632625_1928928830655222_42064552_n.png

20631703_1928928893988549_190674348_n.png

At the beginning the system is in equilibrium and then x(0)=0, that leads to B being equal to 0 and and A0+A=0 because the spring isn't stretched at the beginning.
20632455_1928929140655191_236803601_n.png

20643868_1928929220655183_226754705_n.png

20632337_1928929310655174_1726256519_n.png

Thanks.
 
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I have not tried to follow your equations, but I can suggest an easier way via a sequence of simplifications.
First, model it as all happening on a horizontal surface, with a horizontal force mg applied to the rightmost block.
Next, we can merge the two blocks connected by the inextensible string into a single block mass 2m.
Clearly the average acceleration is g/3 to the right, so take a noninertial frame accelerating that way. In this frame, the left-hand block has a pseudoforce ... to the left, and the 2m block has a pseudoforce ... to the left, leaving it with a net force ... to the right. (Fill in the blanks.)
Finally, consider the common mass centre of the two blocks. How does this move in the reference frame? How do the two blocks move in relation to it?
 
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haruspex said:
I have not tried to follow your equations, but I can suggest an easier way via a sequence of simplifications.
First, model it as all happening on a horizontal surface, with a horizontal force mg applied to the rightmost block.
Next, we can merge the two blocks connected by the inextensible string into a single block mass 2m.
Clearly the average acceleration is g/3 to the right, so take a noninertial frame accelerating that way. In this frame, the left-hand block has a pseudoforce ... to the left, and the 2m block has a pseudoforce ... to the left, leaving it with a net force ... to the right. (Fill in the blanks.)
Finally, consider the common mass centre of the two blocks. How does this move in the reference frame? How do the two blocks move in relation to it?
Thanks, your explanation hinted me why A0 is mg/3k. A0=amax/w2. And maximal acceleration amax after infinitesimal moment of time since the rightmost block has been released is gm/2m=g/2 because at that moment the spring is not deformed, so F=kΔx=k0=0, so we don't have to consider the spring and the leftmost block at that moment. So A0 =g*2m/(2*3*k)=mg/3k. Am I correct?
 
snate said:
Thanks, your explanation hinted me why A0 is mg/3k. A0=amax/w2. And maximal acceleration amax after infinitesimal moment of time since the rightmost block has been released is gm/2m=g/2 because at that moment the spring is not deformed, so F=kΔx=k0=0, so we don't have to consider the spring and the leftmost block at that moment. So A0 =g*2m/(2*3*k)=mg/3k. Am I correct?
Looks good.
 
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