What determines the starting point of a bending moment diagram?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the conventions used to determine the starting point of a bending moment diagram, particularly why it may start at -4kNm instead of 4kNm. Participants explore the implications of sign conventions in bending moments, including the effects of tension and the direction of moments.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the starting value of the bending moment diagram, seeking clarification on how to determine it without making a cut.
  • Another participant states that the sign convention assumes that a bending moment causing tension on the top of the beam is negative.
  • A participant suggests that clockwise moments are typically assumed to be negative, prompting further discussion on conventions.
  • One contributor clarifies the distinction between external moments and internal bending moments, noting that the sign convention depends on whether the moment causes tension on the top or bottom of the beam.
  • It is mentioned that any convention can be applied as long as it is used consistently throughout the analysis.
  • A participant argues that the sign of a bending moment is not strictly related to its direction (clockwise or anticlockwise) but rather to whether it results in hogging or sagging effects.
  • Some participants note that sign conventions can vary globally and that there are strong advocates for different conventions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conventions for determining the sign of bending moments, indicating that multiple competing views remain and the discussion is unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that sign conventions can vary and depend on specific definitions, which may lead to confusion without a clear agreement on the adopted conventions.

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In the bottom left, why does the BM diagram start at -4kNm rather than 4kNm? I understand that if you make a cut you yield this result but if you don't make a cut how would you know whether it starts at -4kNm or 4kNm?

Thanks
 
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By convention. They have assumed that a bending moment causing tension on top of the beam is -ve.
 
Aren't clock-wise moments assumed to be negative?
 
Two things:

1) I think you might be confusing the moment applied externally to a body with that of an internal bending moment. An internal bending moment is usually given a sign convention that depends on whether it causes tension on the top of a beam or on the bottom of a beam. In this specific case the convention adopted here is a bending moment is +ve if it causes tension on the bottom of the beam.

2) You can apply any convention as long as you are always consistent throughout. So if you define a clockwise moment as +ve than that is perfectly fine. Just don't switch back to a -ve clockwise convention later. That being said, you are right that a standard convention used by many is to assume a clockwise moment is -ve.
 
If you have device work on Android, you can download Shear Forces Bending Moments app from Google play. This is a link:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hakan.mnq
This app finds shear forces and moments functions by using the method of sections and draws diagrams of these functions for isostatic straight beam. Calculation steps are shown in orderly.
 
Nugso, the sign of a bending moment is not related to whether it is clockwise or anticlockwise. After all, if you were to go round to the other side of the beam, it would still be bending the same way. The test is whether the effect is a hogging or a sagging effect. Sign conventions vary around the world rather more than you would think, and there are fierce defenders of some of them. Think of whether the tension is on top (hogging) or underneath (sagging). If you are dealing with a column, then you will have to choose point of view (just as you do for a beam, generally viewed from underneath.
 
You can test yourself by https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hakan.mnq.
You can see solution of the above question at attached pictures. This app shows you how can find function of shear forces and moments and draws diagrams.
 

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