News What Does Julian Assange's Release on Bail Mean for the Future of Wikileaks?

[nismaratwork]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/16/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Well, the title of the thread pretty much says it all. I think it's going to be interesting to see if he flees or stays, and how the extradition plays out.

 

[Jack21222]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/16/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Well, the title of the thread pretty much says it all. I think it's going to be interesting to see if he flees or stays, and how the extradition plays out.

I think he'll stay. As the judge points out, he has some interest in clearing his name. Plus, he gets to hang out in a mansion in the meantime.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think he'll stay. As the judge points out, he has some interest in clearing his name. Plus, he gets to hang out in a mansion in the meantime.

I agree.

 

[JaredJames]

I was under the impression he was tagged?

EDIT: He is.

Plus he doesn't have his passport.

 

[Gokul43201]

If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double

Probably the other way round, in this case.

 

[nismaratwork]

If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double

Probably the other way round, in this case.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be him right now, whatever the reason to be in that situation. Still, he's worrying about extradition to Sweden instead of eating Polonium soup soooo... life isn't all bad!

 

[Mathnomalous]

Here is the NY Times article on the matter:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/world/europe/17assange.html?_r=1

The comments section is a virtual pro-Assange "forum:"

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/world/europe/17assange.html?sort=oldest&offset=2

Good to see the UK growing some spheres and standing up to the US, for once. And nothing like seeing Obama and the US Government receiving the proverbial "slap on the face."

 

[Gokul43201]

Good to see the UK growing some spheres and standing up to the US, for once. And nothing like seeing Obama and the US Government receiving the proverbial "slap on the face."

Don't you mean "standing up to Sweden"? I wasn't aware the US had an interest or opinion on the sex charges.

 

[nismaratwork]

Don't you mean "standing up to Sweden"? I wasn't aware the US had an interest or opinion on the sex charges.

None that I know of... the USA wasn't him on charges relating to espionage I suspect. Sweden gets him first however... and...

just a thought for all the people convinced that Assange is being set up...

...

What if he isn't? What if, and let's just throw it out there, he's actually broken the laws of Sweden as a temporary resident, and has to answer for it? Just a thought.

 

[Gokul43201]

just a thought for all the people convinced that Assange is being set up...

...

What if he isn't? What if, and let's just throw it out there, he's actually broken the laws of Sweden as a temporary resident, and has to answer for it? Just a thought.

And there's no inconsistency in thinking his work as a whistle-blower is noble and just, while his actions with women may not be ... yet I get the impression that those who support his political positions are also the ones who are convinced of his innocence in the sex charges.

 

[nismaratwork]

And there's no inconsistency in thinking his work as a whistle-blower is noble and just, while his actions with women may not be ... yet I get the impression that those who support his political positions are also the ones who are convinced of his innocence in the sex charges.

Precisely! He could be a man who truly believes in what he's doing, and a rapist. Or, he could be any combination and permutation of related possibilities... who knows? As you say, this is basically an issue if you assume a priori that the US has Sweden on a leash somehow.

 

[Mathnomalous]

And there's no inconsistency in thinking his work as a whistle-blower is noble and just, while his actions with women may not be ... yet I get the impression that those who support his political positions are also the ones who are convinced of his innocence in the sex charges.

You are entitled to your belief system. Here is an excerpt from a BBC article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

Mr Assange is accused of having unprotected sex with a woman, identified only as Miss A, when she insisted he use a condom.

He is also accused of having unprotected sex with another woman, Miss W, while she was asleep.

He is probably guilty of the first accusation; I am doubtful about the second. But, that is up to Swedish courts to decide. Both accusations are irrelevant within the bigger picture; whether Assange is innocent or guilty of those accusations, the information released by Wikileaks does not change.

What Assange needs to do now is develop some obscure medical condition. If the UK fails to extradite a certified tyrant (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/599526.stm), Assange should be comfortably safe.

 

[Proton Soup]

And there's no inconsistency in thinking his work as a whistle-blower is noble and just, while his actions with women may not be ... yet I get the impression that those who support his political positions are also the ones who are convinced of his innocence in the sex charges.

what if you're not convinced of the legitimacy of sweden's sex laws? personally, i don't view women as retarded children that have to be protected from themselves. if the woman wants to use a condom, then she should assert herself and not have sex.

 

[nismaratwork]

what if you're not convinced of the legitimacy of sweden's sex laws? personally, i don't view women as retarded children that have to be protected from themselves. if the woman wants to use a condom, then she should assert herself and not have sex.

I think you're right about women, and not using a condom isn't a crime, but that's not exactly what's alleged.

According to a statement from British police, Assange has been “accused by the Swedish authorities of one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape, all alleged to have been committed in August 2010.” The charges stem from two women who both say that their sexual encounters with Assange began as consensual but became nonconsensual after he stopped using a condom.

So, he used a condom, then took it off and the women protested? That's still not kosher Proton, if she says stop at any point you have to stop. I also note that there is a difference between getting in bed with someone unprotected, and having that person whip off the condom mid-coitus.

Frankly, the latter is creepy and dangerous...

edit: source quote: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/julian_assange_arrested_in_bri.html

 

[Proton Soup]

I think you're right about women, and not using a condom isn't a crime, but that's not exactly what's alleged.



So, he used a condom, then took it off and the women protested? That's still not kosher Proton, if she says stop at any point you have to stop. I also note that there is a difference between getting in bed with someone unprotected, and having that person whip off the condom mid-coitus.

Frankly, the latter is creepy and dangerous...

edit: source quote: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/julian_assange_arrested_in_bri.html

see, this is what I'm talking about. "unlawful coercion" ? meaning what exactly, he talked them into doing something, like not using a condom? i don't know what any of this PC crap even means. is molestation touching her pudenda without explicitly asking first "may i now touch your pudenda?" it all sounds like some of the feminist overregulation crap that was circulating on college campuses a while back. but if you want to talk creepy, i thought some of the stuff coming from the females leading up to these encounters seemed a little stalkerish.

in any case, i don't find these women credible. you'd think as long as julian's been around, if he were really some kind of rapist that this would have come up before.

 

[nismaratwork]

see, this is what I'm talking about. "unlawful coercion" ? meaning what exactly, he talked them into doing something, like not using a condom? i don't know what any of this PC crap even means. is molestation touching her pudenda without explicitly asking first "may i now touch your pudenda?" it all sounds like some of the feminist overregulation crap that was circulating on college campuses a while back. but if you want to talk creepy, i thought some of the stuff coming from the females leading up to these encounters seemed a little stalkerish.

in any case, i don't find these women credible. you'd think as long as julian's been around, if he were really some kind of rapist that this would have come up before.

I find that I'm not in a position to judge the credibility of these women, Assange, or the worth of the law. Nobody seems to know the exact details of the case, and just because there is such a thing is overly PC views of sex doesn't mean he couldn't be some creep who likes to disrobe 'king willy' mid-stream. I'm not in the mood to get into some kind of class on unreported crimes, and it's entirely possible that he did nothing wrong... who knows...
not me.
not you.

 

[lisab]

He is probably guilty of the first accusation; I am doubtful about the second. But, that is up to Swedish courts to decide. Both accusations are irrelevant within the bigger picture; whether Assange is innocent or guilty of those accusations, the information released by Wikileaks does not change.

Re the bolded part of your post: why do you believe that?