What does q x d represent in dipole moment calculations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and understanding of the dipole moment in physics, specifically focusing on the expression "q x d" and its implications. Participants seek to clarify the meaning of this expression in the context of electric dipoles, exploring both conceptual and mathematical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire for an intuitive understanding of the dipole moment and questions the meaning of "q x d".
  • Another participant explains that a dipole consists of two charges, q and -q, separated by a distance d, and discusses how the dipole responds to electric fields.
  • A participant clarifies that the dipole moment is not a cross product but rather a scalar multiplication, suggesting that the notation "x" could lead to confusion.
  • There is mention of the dipole moment being defined as p = qd for two equal and opposite charges, which is a common introduction in physics education.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential misunderstanding of the dipole moment equation, particularly regarding the notation used for multiplication.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the notation and interpretation of the dipole moment, with some emphasizing the need for clarity in mathematical representation. There is no consensus on the best way to communicate the concept, and confusion remains regarding the use of "x" in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of precise notation in physics, indicating that misunderstandings can arise from ambiguous symbols. The discussion also touches on the educational context in which the dipole moment is typically introduced.

iScience
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i have an intuition of electric field lines, and force. All quantities yielded from an operation between two quantities should hold meaning. what meaning does the value "q x d" hold? I'm looking for intuition/ an intuitive grasp of the dipole moment.
 
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A dipole can be understood by thinking of it as two charges, q and -q, held apart from each other by a small distance d. So a dipole is neutral overall but it will respond to electric fields since it wants to align with field lines, and it will accelerate in regions of nonconstant field, since (in the q, -q picture) different magnitude forces will act on the two sides of the dipole.

An "ideal dipole" would correspond to the limit d→0, qd=constant.

A dipole moment qd characterizes the strength of a dipole. The larger the value qd, the more torque the dipole will feel in a uniform field, or alternatively, the more force it will feel in a field gradient.

There are other ways to understand dipoles too. For example, all magnets are dipoles (there is no such thing as a magnetic "charge" or monopole). But one could think of a magnetic dipole as a small conducting loop where an ideal magnetic dipole corresponds to the limit of the loop's diameter approaching zero. (This is a more realistic model than thinking of the magnetic dipole as two oppositely charged magnetic monopoles.)

Localized charge configurations can be analyzed in the "far field" regime (r>>d) in terms of their "monopole moment", corresponding to the net charge of the distribution, their "dipole moment", corresponding to the distribution's net dipole moment, their "quadrupole moment" (a quadrupole can be thought of as two opposing dipoles separated by d), their "octopole moment" (two opposing quadrupoles separated by d), etc. If you specify all the 2n-pole moments and their direction, this completely specifies the field generated by any localized charge distribution, provided you're interested in the field much farther away from the distribution than the distribution's size.
 
Last edited:
iScience said:
i have an intuition of electric field lines, and force. All quantities yielded from an operation between two quantities should hold meaning. what meaning does the value "q x d" hold? I'm looking for intuition/ an intuitive grasp of the dipole moment.

I hope that you're referring to the equation for the dipole moment of a set of point charges:

$$\vec{p}=\sum ^n _{i = 1} q_i \vec{r}_i $$

The dipole moment is NOT the cross product of the charge and distance, so avoid using "x" to show multiplication.

What exactly is confusing you? It's hard to give help when your question is so broad.
 
Astrum said:
I hope that you're referring to the equation for the dipole moment of a set of point charges:

$$\vec{p}=\sum ^n _{i = 1} q_i \vec{r}_i $$

In the US at least, most physics students first encounter the dipole moment in an introductory physics course, for two charges of equal magnitude q and opposite polarity, separated by a distance d. In that case, the magnitude of the dipole moment is p = qd.
 
jtbell said:
In the US at least, most physics students first encounter the dipole moment in an introductory physics course, for two charges of equal magnitude q and opposite polarity, separated by a distance d. In that case, the magnitude of the dipole moment is p = qd.

Yeah, but I'm confused with using "x" to show multiplication. It makes me wonder if he thought ##\vec{p} = q \times \vec{r}##

And we all know that's wrong on so many levels o.O
 

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