What Happens to Beta Particles in Empty Space?

[hagopbul]

If I have to send a beta particle in space and if the space is completely empty (from matter and energy just imagine!)
What would happen to the particle?
If I put a very good GM in 1 Km from the source should I detect the beta particle if the beta particle has the power of 0.5 Mev?
Dose the beta particle decomposition in the emptiness of the space and why (there is nothing in that space to absorb the beta particle.) should the beta particle just continue moving until it hits something that absorb it or not!
Sorry about my Q maybe it look like a naive Question but really believe me I never get a answer that make me rest.
thank you all

i post this to here after i post it else where so i will able to have two opinions

 

[mathman]

Any particle traveling in a vacuum with no gravitational field will continue at a constant velocity. To effect a beta particle (electron) you need a gravitational or electromagnetic field or neutral stuff for a direct collision.

 

[hagopbul]

no you don't understand the Q the beta particle WILL [decomposition or despairer] after few second or minutes WHY?

 

[Astronuc]

The beta particle (electron) is a fundamental particle, as far as we know. Somewhere is a proton (or ion) in search of an electron. Very likely the beta particle will find an ion and settle down as part of a neutral atom.

 

[hagopbul]

but why the beta particle [decomposition or despairer] to other thing or to power after a [t]
time

 

[mgb_phys]

No the beta particle would continue pretty much for ever (depending on the cosmological model of the day)
Neutrons interestingly decay in a few minutes if on their own outside a nucleas.

 

[hagopbul]

maybe what is your source

 

[vanesch]

maybe what is your source

An elementary course in physics ?

Considering your question, there's not much of a dispute, you know: a beta particle (an electron) that has to fly for about 1 km to a detector through empty space will do so, no problem. Without interactions, as has been said before here, electrons don't decay within any reasonable time frame, and certainly not the few microseconds it will need to cross a kilometer.

So, yes, you should detect it (if it is in the right direction of course). No, it will not decompose in a few microseconds (or a few centuries) in empty space.

 

[tiny-tim]

Hey guys!

hagopbul just wanted a second opinion …

see https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=220960

 

[hagopbul]

Hey boys I understand that beta particle will decays after a very very very very VERY long time! But the main Q? The heart of my naïve Q is Why , just why the electron will decay after 4.6*10^26 yr

 

[hagopbul]

and gays thank you all you were great...

 

[vanesch]

But the main Q? The heart of my naïve Q is Why , just why the electron will decay after 4.6*10^26 yr

Because it is tired of waiting?

Where do you get that number from ? I think it is manifestly wrong...

 

[tiny-tim]

… maybe never decay … ?

why the electron will decay after 4.6*10^26 yr

Where do you get that number from ? I think it is manifestly wrong...

It's from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_decay.

But, hagopbul, I think you should note that it says the mean lifetime is greater than 4.6*10^26 yr!

In other words: I think people expect that electrons never decay - but it's only been proved that their mean lifetime must be at least 4.6*10^26 yr!

 

[vanesch]

My fault. I thought that the shown electron life time was longer than the shown proton decay lifetime, which is beyond the 10^(31) years.

 

[hagopbul]

Q?

What I see now that no body understand the main Question maybe it is my fault
What I am looking for that the electron is consist of two quark and gluon when the beta particle exist and speed in the space the two quarks start to move and squeeze the gluon between it, fig(1)

The heart of my 1st Q was is this movement consume some of the kinetic power of beta particle so the particle will finally stop .
1st I was thinking about the Newton laws that beta particle will move for ever in the empty space but I was thinking dose the movement of the quarks inside the electron will resist the movement of the electron it self and if not why ?. That was my 1st Q!
2nd the electron will finally decay (after 1 year) why ?? what is happening inside this electron that make this fundamental particle to decays
Please forgive my ignorance I am knew to the particle and elementary particle physics

see the attachment

 

[tiny-tim]

A beta particle, or electron, does not consist of two quarks and a gluon.

(What makes you think it does? )

It's just an electron.

 

[hagopbul]

protons and neutrons consist of 3 quarks and you are 100% right but what if that right
because we see that the behavior of the e and the proton are the same except the mass
and it is my mistake about the quarks
but if the e don't consist of quarks then why it is decays after long long time[4.6*10^26 yr]

 

[hagopbul]

and you are too fast that good

 

[hagopbul]

it must never decays what ever hapened

 

[Astronuc]

but if the e don't consist of quarks then why it is decays after long long time[4.6*10^26 yr]

4.6*10^26 yr is essentially never for all intents and purposes. That number probably fits a model. I doubt anyone has observed the decay of an electron.

 

[vanesch]

4.6*10^26 yr is essentially never for all intents and purposes. That number probably fits a model. I doubt anyone has observed the decay of an electron.

If I understand well, it is a lower boundary, given by observation. It means that, experimentally, *if ever* the electron would decay, it would have a decay time longer than 4.6 10^26 yr.

This is like the decay time of the proton, which is larger than 10^31 yr. It doesn't mean that the proton lifetime is 10^31 yr, it only means that the *experiment* couldn't say beyond this lifetime (simply because "no signal" was still statistically compatible with this boundary).

 

[hagopbul]

thank you all
but why the number is 4.6*10^26 not for example 50*10^50 ,or higher,and how they found this number 4.6*10^26 for electron.. there must be some theory base for this numbers

 

[vanesch]

thank you all
but why the number is 4.6*10^26 not for example 50*10^50 ,or higher,and how they found this number 4.6*10^26 for electron.. there must be some theory base for this numbers

Yes, experiment. Consider that you watch 10^20 electrons for 1 year, and you haven't seen any decay during that time. If we assume that the decay time of an electron is tau, then the probability for not seeing a decay during time T is given by a Poisson distribution:
P1 = exp(- T/tau)
For 1 electron.

For N electrons, the probability that none of them decayed, is the product of the probability that the first didn't decay, and that the second didn't decay, and...

So P = P1 ^ N = exp(- T/tau) ^N = exp(- N T / tau)

Now, one considers that we don't have too much bad luck, so one considers that for a given experiment, P is not smaller than, say, 1%. (it would mean that if we repeated this experiment, say, 10 000 times, that 9 900 times, we WOULD have seen at least a decay, and only in 100 out of 10 000 of these experiments, we wouldn't - we consider that we are not that unlucky).

This means that P > 0.01, and hence that N T / tau < - ln(0.01) = ln(100) = 4.6.

Or, that N T / 4.6 < tau.

Now, if you don't require 1% bad luck but rather 0.1% bad luck, that won't change much. What you have is that if your experiment had N particles in it, and you watched for a time T, and you didn't see any decay, then that puts a lower limit on the possible values of the decay time tau.
In our case, if we watched 10^20 electrons for 1 year, then tau is > 10^20/4.6 yr or something like 2 10^19 year. That's all my experiment can tell you.

For the cited number, here's the experiment:
http://en.scientificcommons.org/8574371

The used 32 days of measurement time (our T), and a confidence level of 90% (meaning 10% "bad luck").

And concerning Poisson distributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_distribution

 

[hagopbul]

finally Scientific answer would it help if we study the colliding of electron and protons

 

[vanesch]

finally Scientific answer would it help if we study the colliding of electron and protons

Help what ?

 

[hagopbul]

help to understand the electron and beta particle

 

[vanesch]

help to understand the electron and beta particle

The electron is of course the beta particle.

As to "helping to understand the electron", about the worse you could do is to collide electrons with protons. Actually I did my PhD on that kind of collisions, and what you do is that you *study the proton* that way, which is a far more complicated object than the electron. In order to probe the electron, you'd need to collide them with pointons I guess

 

[hagopbul]

thank you ,you save me a lot of time i was trying to do that after a year from now
do help need any help in return...