What happens to the capacitor and dielectric when an old phone charges faster?

[feynman1]

Is there any diagram showing the inner workings of the capacitor of a phone?
If an old phone becomes less chargeable (takes less time to be fully charged), what happens to its capacitor and the dielectric?

 

[berkeman]

Is there any diagram showing the inner workings of the capacitor of a phone?
If an old phone becomes less chargeable (takes less time to be fully charged), what happens to its capacitor and the dielectric?

Oh dear. What phone? What capacitor? POTS, cellphone, 900MHz in-house network phone? What in the world are you asking about? Are you maybe asking about recharging the battery for your cellphone?

And I'll go ahead and change the prefix level for your thread from what you chose (A = Advanced/PhD level) to a more appropriate level (B=Basic/high school level).

 

[anuttarasammyak]

From Wiki Microphone:
---------
The condenser microphone, invented at Western Electric in 1916 by E. C. Wente,[19] is also called a capacitor microphone or electrostatic microphone—capacitors were historically called condensers. Here, the diaphragm acts as one plate of a capacitor, and the vibrations produce changes in the distance between the plates.
-----------

You can find many diagrams by web search e.g. https://electrosome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Condenser-Mic-Diagram.gif

 

[Merlin3189]

Here's a diagram of an old phone. Both capacitors would be non-polarized types, so do not deteriorate much with age. I don't think capacitors themselves have much in the way of inner workings - just rolls of metal foil separated with plastic film.

If you have an old phone, you don't need to worry about charging. They get their power from the phone line.

 

[sophiecentaur]

If you have an old phone, you don't need to worry about charging.

The OP is basically about chargeability of his phone so it must refer to a cordless instrument.

@berkeman "POTS" gave me a problem. I couldn't think what phones had to do with Tachycardia (top of the list on Google) We learn something every day. And I feel your pain regarding the OP. (Old Person?)

@feynman1 Perhaps it would be worth while pointing out (explicitly) to the OP that the Energy to drive a Phone is not stored in a Capacitor but in a rechargeable battery.

 

[feynman1]

The OP is basically about chargeability of his phone so it must refer to a cordless instrument.

@berkeman "POTS" gave me a problem. I couldn't think what phones had to do with Tachycardia (top of the list on Google) We learn something every day. And I feel your pain regarding the OP. (Old Person?)

@feynman1 Perhaps it would be worth while pointing out (explicitly) to the OP that the Energy to drive a Phone is not stored in a Capacitor but in a rechargeable battery.

Thanks. How is a rechargeable battery different from a battery or a capacitor?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Thanks. How is a rechargeable battery different from a battery or a capacitor?

Have you looked around for information, yourself? You expect me to do your research for you and select three or more suitable links for your information? Google can give you all the information you want and you can select a level that actually suits you. If you were to volunteer a cash transfer to me of £20 then I would give the task a half hour of my time. (Mods - that's a joke)
I could say that batteries are largely Chemical and that most conventional Capacitors do not involve Chemical Changes - but Supercapacitors fall somewhere in between. But you need more information than that so go hunting.

 

[berkeman]

@berkeman "POTS" gave me a problem. I couldn't think what phones had to do with Tachycardia (top of the list on Google) We learn something every day.

(Old Bell Labs guy here...)

 

[sophiecentaur]

(Old Bell Labs guy here...)

Past but not old, as in ancient, I assume.

 

[feynman1]

so can we conclude the ageing of a phone has nothing to do with the capacitor?

 

[f95toli]

Are you confused about the difference between a capacitor and a battery?
They are very different things.

 

[feynman1]

Are you confused about the difference between a capacitor and a battery?
They are very different things.

not confused

 

[f95toli]

not confused

OK, so why are you asking about ageing of THE capacitor? A modern phone will probably include tens or even hundreds of capacitors. None of them are -in the vast majority of cases- involved in the ageing.
When people talk about ageing of mobile phones and other portable devices (as well as say electric cars), they usually refer to deterioration of the battery

 

[feynman1]

so a capacitor never ages? its dielectric never goes bad?

 

[f95toli]

so a capacitor never ages? its dielectric never goes bad?

They do age, but very slowly compared to a battery. Electrolytic capacitors age much faster than other types. but they can still easily last 30-40 years or more. There is plenty of electronics from the late 60s early 70s that is still working just fine.

 

[russ_watters]

Are you confused about the difference between a capacitor and a battery?
They are very different things.

not confused

The OP really makes it look like you are, unless you've figured it out since then but haven't told us.

what's the total energy stored in a battery as a function of its emf?

QV

What is the relevance of that question? When we answer questions with no or confusing context, it is very possible we are leading you down the wrong path without even knowing it.

 

[feynman1]

The OP really makes it look like you are, unless you've figured it out since then but haven't told us.

QV

What is the relevance of that question? When we answer questions with no or confusing context, it is very possible we are leading you down the wrong path without even knowing it.

that deviates from the topic so I'm not asking any more

 

[sophiecentaur]

that deviates from the topic so I'm not asking any more

I suggested some self propelled study. It’s the only way you will get anywhere with this, I think.

 

[Merlin3189]

The battery is generally the first thing to deteriorate on a modern phone, but it can be replaced. They lose capacity, so don't last as long between charges.

The reason I've got rid of my phones has more often been the evolution of operating systems. You can update it for a few years, but eventually it can't run the later versions because they want newer hardware. Then you find you can't install recent apps because they require newer operating systems.

what's the total energy stored in a battery as a function of its emf?

I think most phone batteries have the same emf (though I'd accept correction on that) about 3.7 V.
The emf is determined by the cell chemistry (Lithium ion generally) and , possibly, the number of cells in series. (Laptops usually have this, typically 3 or more cells in series, but AFAIK most phones use single cells.)

The energy capacity is usually specified in Amp hours (or mA hrs). That multiplied by the emf gives the energy capacity (in Watt hours or mW hrs). The Ah capacity is determined by the area of the cell plates. The more surface area, the more energy they can store.

Hope that makes up for my rather frivolous post about what I think of as an old phone!

 

[Vanadium 50]

that deviates from the topic so I'm not asking any more

You asked a question. You were asked to clarify it. You didn't. And now you're mad that we didn't answer what you had in mind? Does this seem logical to you? Does it seem effective?

 

[sophiecentaur]

You asked a question. You were asked to clarify it. You didn't. And now you're mad that we didn't answer what you had in mind? Does this seem logical to you? Does it seem effective?

The OP has not responded that he's actually done any further research / study for himself. I think we should wait for a further, better informed, supplementary question.

 

[russ_watters]

Sounds like he's finished with this thread so I am going to close it.